Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by oasis.oasis-open.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA02280 for ebxml-awareness-out; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 15:31:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from c014.sfo.cp.net (c014-h017.c014.sfo.cp.net [209.228.12.81]) by oasis.oasis-open.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id PAA01191 for ; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 15:15:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: (cpmta 23286 invoked from network); 2 Jun 2000 12:15:20 -0700 Received: from 63-248-58-7.usa3.flashcom.net (HELO Default) (63.248.58.7) by smtp.flashcom.net with SMTP; 2 Jun 2000 12:15:20 -0700 X-Sent: 2 Jun 2000 19:15:20 GMT Reply-To: From: "Karl Best" To: , , , , , , , , , , , Subject: list status from the list owner Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 15:14:58 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-ebxml-awareness@lists.oasis-open.org Precedence: bulk ebXML participants: At the risk of adding even more messages to already overactive lists today, let me me offer my apologies for a few blow-ups, melt-downs, etc. that we've seen today. We're seeing two problems: 1) people who don't know the correct procedure for removing themselves from mail lists, and 2) majordomo not responding correctly when people *do* send in the correct commands. Please, if you don't want to be subscribed to a list, don't send mail to the list itself. It doesn't work that way. If you need to unsubscribe, send the following command to majordomo@lists.oasis-open.org: > unsubscribe listname For example: > unsubscribe ebxml If you're unsubscribing from a different address than the one you subscribed with you will need to put your email address at the end like this: > unsubscribe listname youraddress (A lot of people are making this mistake.) So if trying the first command doesn't work then try the second. If this doesn't work, or you get an error message back please send a message to me at the address below, and not to the list; we don't need to fill the lists with lots of adminsitrivia. I'll do my best to help you. As I said, we are having some problems with the majordomo list server, and I will do my best to solve your problems. If you're feeling frustrated and need to scream at someone for this, please send it to me :-) In the meantime, we'll be putting this unsub info in the message footers as a constant reminder. ============================================================ Karl F. Best OASIS Director, Technical Operations 978.667.5115 x206 karl.best@oasis-open.org http://www.oasis-open.org   Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by oasis.oasis-open.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id UAA08254 for ebxml-awareness-out; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 20:45:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from atlrel2.hp.com (atlrel2.hp.com [156.153.255.202]) by oasis.oasis-open.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA08220; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 20:42:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from l3107mxr.atl.hp.com (l3107mxr.atl.hp.com [15.19.254.19]) by atlrel2.hp.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F36C110B; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 20:42:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from hpbs5000.boi.hp.com (hpbs5000.boi.hp.com [15.56.8.201]) by l3107mxr.atl.hp.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 13E804FD84; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 19:42:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from xrosebh3.rsvl.itc.hp.com (xrosebh3.rsvl.itc.hp.com [15.34.240.67]) by hpbs5000.boi.hp.com with ESMTP (8.8.6 (PHNE_17135)/8.7.3 TIS 5.0.1) id SAA24378; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 18:42:33 -0600 (MDT) Received: by xrosebh3.rsvl.itc.hp.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Fri, 2 Jun 2000 17:42:30 -0700 Message-ID: <77054B3A4080D311A27B009027AA63F603F6651A@xpa02.corp.hp.com> From: "COOPER,STEPHENIE (HP-PaloAlto,ex1)" To: ebXML List , ebXML Architecture Cc: ebXML Awareness Team Subject: RE: Calrification from the Editor - Duane Nickull Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 17:42:30 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-ebxml-awareness@lists.oasis-open.org Precedence: bulk Speaking as a technical person, it does not matter whether or not Marketing and Awareness does a separate write-up. The fact is that a document should be readable and as self-contained as possible. Even a technical audience should be provided with an overview. The writers and readers may not be operating at the same knowledge level. In fact, the technical person reading the document may still be green on the technology (as I often am). It's frustrating to me when I'm given a technical document to read that assumes a certain knowledge level and doesn't tell me enough for me to figure out where else I ought to be looking. It's also frustrating to me if a document refers me to another source for the overview 1) because now I've yet another place I've got to look and 2) it's amazing how often I find that the other resource doesn't exist or doesn't cover what the referring source said it was supposed to cover. The writers and readers may not be operating on the same assumptions. All assumptions should be expressed in the front matter of a document. Pardon me if I sound preachy. I know I could express this more gently but I'm rather tired right now. Some references: http://www.wpc-edi.com/AuthHelp.htm http://techwriting.about.com/careers/techwriting/library/weekly/aa090299.htm http://www.nas.nasa.gov/Groups/TechPubs/style.html http://www.wisc.edu/writing/Handbook/DocAPA.html Regards, Steph. -----Original Message----- From: William J. Kammerer [mailto:wkammerer@foresightcorp.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2000 3:04 PM To: ebXML List; ebXML Architecture Cc: ebXML Awareness Team Subject: Re: Calrification from the Editor - Duane Nickull Duane Nickull, ed. of Architecture, wrote: "This Technical Architecture Specification is not meant for a casual reader as much as it is for the technical audience. The Education, Marketing and Awareness Project Team will write a more abstract level document, specifically geared towards outsiders, that will explain the workings of ebXML for that audience." Duane: I don't think we in the Marketing, Awareness, and Education Project Team will be writing any such document, abstract or not. Unless I missed something in all of our meetings - which is possible, since I fall asleep a lot. We're geared up only for the most bird's-eye view stuff re: ebXML, such as FAQs, press releases, 20 second elevator pitches, and giving half hour presentations. We will not be editing the specifications coming out of the other technical groups, except perhaps to lend a hand, if asked, to give each document a common look-and-feel. We (MAE) would not be any more likely to write heavily technical specifications than DISA would write X12 manual prose - that's up to the volunteers in the technical subcommittees to do. I have already indicated that I have had some trouble understanding the document and discerning the architecture. I may be somewhat slow and plodding, but I am not a casual reader. William J. Kammerer FORESIGHT Corp. 4950 Blazer Memorial Pkwy. Dublin, OH USA 43017-3305 (614) 791-1600 Visit FORESIGHT Corp. at http://www.foresightcorp.com/ "Commerce for a New World" ======================================================================= = This is ebxml-awareness, the general mailing list for the ebXML = = Marketing and Awareness project team. The owner of this list is = = owner-ebxml-awareness@oasis-open.org = = = = To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@lists.oasis-open.org with = = the following in the body of the message: = = unsubscribe ebxml-awareness = = If you are subscribed using a different email address, put the = = address you subscribed with at the end of the line; e.g. = = unsubscribe ebxml-awareness myname@company.com = =======================================================================   Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by oasis.oasis-open.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id WAA14803 for ebxml-awareness-out; Mon, 5 Jun 2000 22:15:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from granger.mail.mindspring.net (granger.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.148]) by oasis.oasis-open.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA14695 for ; Mon, 5 Jun 2000 22:00:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from y7w4y (tfx-us15-09.ix.netcom.com [207.94.236.9]) by granger.mail.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA01071; Mon, 5 Jun 2000 22:00:42 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: From: "Rachel Foerster" To: "'Mike Evanoff'" Cc: "ebXML Marketing Awareness Education (E-mail)" Subject: RE: Education & Awareness Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 20:37:21 -0500 Message-ID: <001301bfcf5b$1cc96f00$09ec5ecf@y7w4y> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-reply-to: <4.3.2.7.2.20000604091146.00ddfb50@popmail.mantech-wva.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-ebxml-awareness@lists.oasis-open.org Precedence: bulk Mike, Not yet....we've been focusing first on getting the word out about ebXML in general. However, I agree with you. Do you have any ideas to kick start this? I'm copying the entire Marketing team to start a discussion going on this need. Thanks for bringing it up. Why not join us and help us create some material along these lines? Rachel -----Original Message----- From: Mike Evanoff [mailto:evanoffm@mantech-wva.com] Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2000 8:14 AM To: rachelf@ix.netcom.com Subject: Education & Awareness Rachel, I'm finding that folks already doing X12 EDI sorely need to have some education on how they can start understanding how to plan for embracing ebXML.....does your group have any material addressing this topic area? Sincerely, Michael D. Evanoff, Technical Director ManTech Advanced Systems International, Inc. (304) 368-4137, www.mantech-wva.com, www.dcnicn.com/XMLEDICentral/ ======================================================================= = This is ebxml-awareness, the general mailing list for the ebXML = = Marketing and Awareness project team. The owner of this list is = = owner-ebxml-awareness@oasis-open.org = = = = To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@lists.oasis-open.org with = = the following in the body of the message: = = unsubscribe ebxml-awareness = = If you are subscribed using a different email address, put the = = address you subscribed with at the end of the line; e.g. = = unsubscribe ebxml-awareness myname@company.com = =======================================================================   Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by oasis.oasis-open.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id GAA18645 for ebxml-awareness-out; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 06:00:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (mta6.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.240]) by oasis.oasis-open.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id FAA18515 for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 05:49:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from postoffice.pacbell.net ([63.196.116.11]) by mta6.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with ESMTP id <0FVQ0030K8MMME@mta6.snfc21.pbi.net> for ebXML-awareness@lists.oasis-open.org; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 02:49:39 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 02:52:44 -0700 From: "S. Champ" Subject: Re: Education & Awareness To: rachelf@ix.netcom.com, ebXML-awareness@lists.oasis-open.org Reply-to: s-champ@pacbell.net Message-id: <393CC9EC.497271C0@postoffice.pacbell.net> Organization: The Symmetry Net MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; U) Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Accept-Language: en,ar References: <001301bfcf5b$1cc96f00$09ec5ecf@y7w4y> Sender: owner-ebxml-awareness@lists.oasis-open.org Precedence: bulk getting the word out: we could probably use a "this is XML" pamphlet, in digital and hard-copy formats. also, some words about EDI. and, probably, a copy of: http://www.ebxml.org/working/project_teams/core_components/simpl-edi.pdf ( sans the "messages" section ) also, I'd like to emphasize point "h", given below. ( and apologies that it's given that far down the list. a possible remedy for such as this is mentioned in point "b" ) a) towards an XML-based document-architecture, and a good countenance on the public-available ebXML proposals and other docs: I've got something tabled here, which is supposed to be able to format XML to PDF. this should be ideal for multi-format document-output (eg: XSLT of XML to each target-format { HTML, PDF, plain-text , ... } ). http://xml.apache.org/fop "FOP" == "Formatting Object Parser" ( "Formatting Objects" == a core part of the w3c XSL spec. also, a nice construct for digital documentation. ( re: "typesetting" ... ) ) b) started working towards some sort of an XML-based email system, here. ( XSLT, SMTP, LDAP? ...) currently: needing to dig through the FSF "Gnu" tools, for a standalone mailer. ..and maybe through some other "OSS" project-sites ( not a few of them, there are) , thence (likely) to use some TCL/TK to glue that mailer together with the 'XT' XSLT-engine. ( just as the Gnu tools generally are, XT is free. == good for the budgeting, no? ) c) ( glad that the message-filtering is fixed, on this emailer, now. apologies, for not speaking-up on any of this, sooner. it was all being shuffled of to the local 'XML-Apache' catchbins. ) d) could a person find employment, working on some ebXML docs and doc-systems? ( "aspiring information-architect" | "freelance writer" has bills to pay, could use a good Java-book or two, needs a job. ) e) if a distribution of the "Simple-EDI" doc, w/o the messages-section, seems like a good idea, I should be able to contact Mr. Whittle, about the same. please state so, if it should be pursued. f) sidebar: we could use: 1) an XML-based messaging system. 2) a commitment from folks to send along XML source of any MS-word or other-format document, and maybe a working-group-node about the same. 3) some data about who's using which of: - Operating-System - ms-[word|office]-version - web-UA ( "browser" ) type and version (eg: MSIE ==> in-built [XML+XSL]-ability) & "does your email software have HTML capability?" ...among the members of the ebXML WGs I should file seperate proposals about these, and need to check-in on the progress of the ebXML core XML-schemas (if|when filed, the proposals will likely have XML source with XSL stylesheets available, though likely submitted as emailed-plain-text with HTML-copy attatched. this is related to point f.1 ) g) some simple, practical, examples of the usage of XML should be helpful. - resume-example: I can send along a URL, or a copy, of an XSL stylesheet that I've used for building a resume from XML source-data, if it was requested. ( needing to build the schema or DTD for the source-doc, too, and should be able to get that done shortly, on-request ) - other examples ??? 1) "typical-scenario" cases would be appropriate 2) shop-time would be helpful, re: examples-building. and|or a map, of typical "workflow" points ( and|or a collection thereof ) 3) anyone know of some good demonstrative EDI systems, worth a note and/or interview, re: ebXML ? h) regarding ebXML-awareness: some collaboration with the U.S. "Small Business Administration" should be in-order. and a list of target-organizations among other nations should also be good for a work-point. i) someone had mentioned something about "keeping track of things". methinks we need some good group-ware. the document side of it it ought to be purely XML-based, or as much so as possible. I came across some TCL/TK-based groupware, but this should probably be addressed to "ebXML-core". bearing-down at some pending XML-wrapping-around-document.this, -- sean champ s-champ@pacbell.net docsys_x@hotmail.com Rachel Foerster wrote: > > Mike, > > Not yet....we've been focusing first on getting the word out about ebXML in > general. > > However, I agree with you. Do you have any ideas to kick start this? I'm > copying the entire Marketing team to start a discussion going on this need. > > Thanks for bringing it up. Why not join us and help us create some material > along these lines? > > Rachel > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike Evanoff [mailto:evanoffm@mantech-wva.com] > Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2000 8:14 AM > To: rachelf@ix.netcom.com > Subject: Education & Awareness > > Rachel, > > I'm finding that folks already doing X12 EDI sorely need to have some > education on how they can start understanding how to plan for embracing > ebXML.....does your group have any material addressing this topic area? > > Sincerely, > > Michael D. Evanoff, Technical Director > ManTech Advanced Systems International, Inc. > (304) 368-4137, www.mantech-wva.com, www.dcnicn.com/XMLEDICentral/ > > ======================================================================= > = This is ebxml-awareness, the general mailing list for the ebXML = > = Marketing and Awareness project team. The owner of this list is = > = owner-ebxml-awareness@oasis-open.org = > = = > = To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@lists.oasis-open.org with = > = the following in the body of the message: = > = unsubscribe ebxml-awareness = > = If you are subscribed using a different email address, put the = > = address you subscribed with at the end of the line; e.g. = > = unsubscribe ebxml-awareness myname@company.com = > ======================================================================= ======================================================================= = This is ebxml-awareness, the general mailing list for the ebXML = = Marketing and Awareness project team. The owner of this list is = = owner-ebxml-awareness@oasis-open.org = = = = To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@lists.oasis-open.org with = = the following in the body of the message: = = unsubscribe ebxml-awareness = = If you are subscribed using a different email address, put the = = address you subscribed with at the end of the line; e.g. = = unsubscribe ebxml-awareness myname@company.com = =======================================================================   Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by oasis.oasis-open.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA23975 for ebxml-awareness-out; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 10:30:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from enterprise.disa.org (garnet.disa.org [216.2.91.21]) by oasis.oasis-open.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id KAA23866 for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 10:21:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SMTP agent by mail gateway Tue, 06 Jun 2000 10:20:12 -0500 Received: from [10.0.0.24] by enterprise.disa.org (NTMail 5.05.0002/NT3116.00.383cb209) with ESMTP id xxmebaaa for ebXML-Awareness@lists.oasis-open.org; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 10:12:45 -0400 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000606100134.00a59c70@enterprise.disa.org> X-Sender: akotok@enterprise.disa.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 10:12:22 -0400 To: , "'Mike Evanoff'" From: Alan Kotok Subject: RE: Education & Awareness Cc: "ebXML Marketing Awareness Education (E-mail)" , lclowers@disa.org In-Reply-To: <001301bfcf5b$1cc96f00$09ec5ecf@y7w4y> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20000604091146.00ddfb50@popmail.mantech-wva.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-ebxml-awareness@lists.oasis-open.org Precedence: bulk Mike, Rachel, et al. One of my tasks from Brussels is to prepare an education plan for ebXML, on which I have started work. In the plan, I will propose a set of learning objectives beginning with awareness of ebXML and building up to concrete skills enabling application of ebXML concepts to realistic business scenarios. The plan will also recommend delivery mechanisms and media for achieving those objectives. Another promising area is the emerging professional certification movement for e-business. DISA is taking part in the EC Institute that is developing a body of knowledge expressed in a set of learning objectives that reflect the skills needed by e-business professionals, both technical and managerial. I intend to coordinate the ebXML training plan with the EC Institute's certification activities. Mike, if you have no objections, I would like to ask you to comment the draft training plan. I may not be able to complete it until next month however. June is getting a little busy. Best regards. Alan Kotok Director, Education and Information Resources Data Interchange Standards Association akotok@disa.org +1 703-518-4174 At 08:37 PM 6/5/00 -0500, Rachel Foerster wrote: >Mike, > >Not yet....we've been focusing first on getting the word out about ebXML in >general. > >However, I agree with you. Do you have any ideas to kick start this? I'm >copying the entire Marketing team to start a discussion going on this need. > >Thanks for bringing it up. Why not join us and help us create some material >along these lines? > >Rachel > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Mike Evanoff [mailto:evanoffm@mantech-wva.com] >Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2000 8:14 AM >To: rachelf@ix.netcom.com >Subject: Education & Awareness > > >Rachel, > > I'm finding that folks already doing X12 EDI sorely need to have some >education on how they can start understanding how to plan for embracing >ebXML.....does your group have any material addressing this topic area? > >Sincerely, > >Michael D. Evanoff, Technical Director >ManTech Advanced Systems International, Inc. >(304) 368-4137, www.mantech-wva.com, www.dcnicn.com/XMLEDICentral/ > > >======================================================================= >= This is ebxml-awareness, the general mailing list for the ebXML = >= Marketing and Awareness project team. The owner of this list is = >= owner-ebxml-awareness@oasis-open.org = >= = >= To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@lists.oasis-open.org with = >= the following in the body of the message: = >= unsubscribe ebxml-awareness = >= If you are subscribed using a different email address, put the = >= address you subscribed with at the end of the line; e.g. = >= unsubscribe ebxml-awareness myname@company.com = >======================================================================= ======================================================================= = This is ebxml-awareness, the general mailing list for the ebXML = = Marketing and Awareness project team. The owner of this list is = = owner-ebxml-awareness@oasis-open.org = = = = To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@lists.oasis-open.org with = = the following in the body of the message: = = unsubscribe ebxml-awareness = = If you are subscribed using a different email address, put the = = address you subscribed with at the end of the line; e.g. = = unsubscribe ebxml-awareness myname@company.com = =======================================================================   Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by oasis.oasis-open.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id SAA01341 for ebxml-awareness-out; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 18:45:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from enterprise.disa.org (garnet.disa.org [216.2.91.21]) by oasis.oasis-open.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA01239 for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 18:36:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SMTP agent by mail gateway Tue, 06 Jun 2000 18:35:19 -0500 Received: from [10.0.0.24] by enterprise.disa.org (NTMail 5.05.0002/NT3116.00.383cb209) with ESMTP id kipebaaa for ebXML-Awareness@lists.oasis-open.org; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 18:28:20 -0400 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000606182915.00a5a500@enterprise.disa.org> X-Sender: akotok@enterprise.disa.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Tue, 06 Jun 2000 18:33:12 -0400 To: ebXML-Awareness@lists.oasis-open.org From: Alan Kotok Subject: Vitria release, good ink for ebXML Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-ebxml-awareness@lists.oasis-open.org Precedence: bulk TO: ebXML Marketing, Awareness, Education team Vitria Technology today issued a release with a good plug for ebXML. See text below. Best regards. Alan Kotok akotok@disa.org +1 703-518-4174 =============== June 06, 2000 09:25 Vitria Showcases EbXML eBusiness Solution At JavaOne Conference SUNNYVALE, Calif.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--June 6, 2000-- New XML standard designed to accelerate development and deployment of XML-based ebusiness solutions Vitria Technology Inc. (Nasdaq: VITR), a leading ebusiness platform provider, joined industry leaders at the JavaOne Conference in San Francisco, Calif., to demonstrate Vitria's ebusiness platform support for ebXML. Developed under the guidance of leading ebusiness standards bodies, ebXML is an emerging standard designed to facilitate open trade between organizations by enabling XML to be used in a consistent manner to exchange electronic business data. Vitria's support for ebXML will enable customers to rapidly develop and deploy ebXML-based ebusiness solutions. Vitria's ebusiness platform, BusinessWare, enables companies to conduct business electronically (or "electronically bond") with any online trading partner using open Internet standards like XML. Electronic bonding provides the ability for members to automatically link their business processes over the Internet, enabling automatic, system-to-system exchange of business information and transactions in real time. Vitria's BusinessWare provided the basis for a successful demonstration of ebXML-based electronic bonding between two businesses' back office systems. The prototype was a joint effort by Vitria and Sun Microsystems, presented to experts from around the world who convened to address progress on Java platform-based global electronic business infrastructure technologies, including the ebXML initiative's 18-month charter for a technical framework that will enable XML (Extensible Markup Language) to be utilized in a consistent manner. This ebXML prototype was also demonstarted successfully at the latest ebXML conference in Brussels, Belgium on May 12, 2000. The prototypes implemented the draft ebXML specification for exchange of business documents between trading partners using the everyday Internet Web and e-mail protocols, HTTP and SMTP. Sample OpenTravel Alliance (OTA) business messages were exchanged for the demonstrations. "Vitria is committed to furthering the development of open industry standards for ebusiness," said JoMei Chang, president and CEO of Vitria. "Initiatives such as ebXML align perfectly with our vision of a fluid, seamlessly inter-connected network of exchanges, hubs and trading partners that enable new business relationships to be formed and changed, on demand, in response to constantly shifting market conditions. We call this next generation of ebusiness `business-to-network' or B2N, and Vitria will continue to work on establishing standards that support this vision." Vitria's demonstration of the ebXML prototype at the JavaOne and the ebXML conferences demonstrates the company's ongoing, active role in the development of ebusiness standards. Vitria played a similar leadership role in the development of the RosettaNet ebusiness standard. The RosettaNet organization was formed in 1998 to develop and deploy global standard electronic interfaces to align the processes between supply chain partners in the IT industry, enabling buyers and sellers of computer technology to conduct ebusiness more efficiently. RosettaNet standards include Partner Interface Processes, or PIPs, which consist of system-to-system XML-based dialogs that define how business processes are conducted between IT manufacturers, software publishers, distributors, resellers, and end-users. Vitria's ebusiness platform is designed to support all current and future standards -- such as ebXML and RosettaNet -- for ebusiness. About ebXML ebXML (www.ebXML.org) is an International Initiative established by UN/CEFACT and OASIS in late 1999 with a mandate to undertake an 18-month program of work to research and identify the technical basis upon which the global implementation of XML (Extensible Markup Language) can be standardized. The goal of ebXML is to facilitate open trade between organizations regardless of size by enabling XML to be used in a consistent manner to exchange electronic business data. UN/CEFACT is the United Nations body whose mandate covers worldwide policy and technical development in the area of trade facilitation and electronic business, and OASIS is a non-profit, international consortium dedicated solely to product-independent data and content interchange. About Vitria Vitria Technology, Inc. is a leading ebusiness platform provider. Vitria's ebusiness platform, BusinessWare, automates mission-critical business processes across the extended enterprise, reducing time to market, shortening lead times, lowering operating costs, and increasing customer satisfaction. Vitria is a publicly traded company (Nasdaq:VITR) based in Sunnyvale, California. For more information, call 408/212-2700, visit the company's Web site at www.vitria.com, or send email to info@vitria.com. This press release includes forward-looking statements that are subject to risks, uncertainties and other factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from those referred to in the forward-looking statements. Such factors include, but are not limited to, risk as related to market acceptance of Vitria's product, deployment delays or errors associated with these products, hardware platform incompatibilities, reliance on a limited number of customers for a majority of revenue, need to maintain and enhance certain business relationships with system integrators and other parties, ability to manage growth, activities by Vitria and others regarding protection of proprietary information, release of competitive products and other actions by competitors, Year 2000 problems and economic downturns in either domestic or foreign markets. These forward-looking statements are generally identified by words such as "expect," "anticipate," "intend," "believe," "hope," "assume," "estimate" and other similar words and expressions. BusinessWare(R) is a trademark of Vitria Technology, Inc. All other names may be trademarks of the companies with which they are associated. CONTACT: Vitria Technology Alex Osadzinski, 408/212-2260 alexo@vitria.com or Access Communications Teddi Herman, 415/844-6250 therman@accesspr.com ======================================================================= = This is ebxml-awareness, the general mailing list for the ebXML = = Marketing and Awareness project team. The owner of this list is = = owner-ebxml-awareness@oasis-open.org = = = = To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@lists.oasis-open.org with = = the following in the body of the message: = = unsubscribe ebxml-awareness = = If you are subscribed using a different email address, put the = = address you subscribed with at the end of the line; e.g. = = unsubscribe ebxml-awareness myname@company.com = =======================================================================   Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by oasis.oasis-open.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA03797 for ebxml-awareness-out; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 21:45:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from maynard.mail.mindspring.net (maynard.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.243]) by oasis.oasis-open.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA03754 for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 21:32:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from y7w4y (tfx-us15-164.ix.netcom.com [207.94.236.164]) by maynard.mail.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA20854; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 21:32:08 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: From: "Rachel Foerster" To: "'Alan Kotok'" , "'Mike Evanoff'" Cc: "'ebXML Marketing Awareness Education (E-mail)'" , Subject: RE: Education & Awareness Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 14:33:59 -0500 Message-ID: <000001bfd020$44f4fba0$a4ec5ecf@y7w4y> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <4.2.0.58.20000606100134.00a59c70@enterprise.disa.org> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-ebxml-awareness@lists.oasis-open.org Precedence: bulk Alan, This sounds like a good approach. Education will become even more important as more of the ebXML tech specs reach completion. We need to be ready.... Thanks, Rachel -----Original Message----- From: owner-ebxml-awareness@lists.oasis-open.org [mailto:owner-ebxml-awareness@lists.oasis-open.org]On Behalf Of Alan Kotok Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2000 9:12 AM To: rachelf@ix.netcom.com; 'Mike Evanoff' Cc: ebXML Marketing Awareness Education (E-mail); lclowers@disa.org Subject: RE: Education & Awareness Mike, Rachel, et al. One of my tasks from Brussels is to prepare an education plan for ebXML, on which I have started work. In the plan, I will propose a set of learning objectives beginning with awareness of ebXML and building up to concrete skills enabling application of ebXML concepts to realistic business scenarios. The plan will also recommend delivery mechanisms and media for achieving those objectives. Another promising area is the emerging professional certification movement for e-business. DISA is taking part in the EC Institute that is developing a body of knowledge expressed in a set of learning objectives that reflect the skills needed by e-business professionals, both technical and managerial. I intend to coordinate the ebXML training plan with the EC Institute's certification activities. Mike, if you have no objections, I would like to ask you to comment the draft training plan. I may not be able to complete it until next month however. June is getting a little busy. Best regards. Alan Kotok Director, Education and Information Resources Data Interchange Standards Association akotok@disa.org +1 703-518-4174 At 08:37 PM 6/5/00 -0500, Rachel Foerster wrote: >Mike, > >Not yet....we've been focusing first on getting the word out about ebXML in >general. > >However, I agree with you. Do you have any ideas to kick start this? I'm >copying the entire Marketing team to start a discussion going on this need. > >Thanks for bringing it up. Why not join us and help us create some material >along these lines? > >Rachel > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Mike Evanoff [mailto:evanoffm@mantech-wva.com] >Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2000 8:14 AM >To: rachelf@ix.netcom.com >Subject: Education & Awareness > > >Rachel, > > I'm finding that folks already doing X12 EDI sorely need to have some >education on how they can start understanding how to plan for embracing >ebXML.....does your group have any material addressing this topic area? > >Sincerely, > >Michael D. Evanoff, Technical Director >ManTech Advanced Systems International, Inc. >(304) 368-4137, www.mantech-wva.com, www.dcnicn.com/XMLEDICentral/ > > >======================================================================= >= This is ebxml-awareness, the general mailing list for the ebXML = >= Marketing and Awareness project team. The owner of this list is = >= owner-ebxml-awareness@oasis-open.org = >= = >= To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@lists.oasis-open.org with = >= the following in the body of the message: = >= unsubscribe ebxml-awareness = >= If you are subscribed using a different email address, put the = >= address you subscribed with at the end of the line; e.g. = >= unsubscribe ebxml-awareness myname@company.com = >======================================================================= ======================================================================= = This is ebxml-awareness, the general mailing list for the ebXML = = Marketing and Awareness project team. The owner of this list is = = owner-ebxml-awareness@oasis-open.org = = = = To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@lists.oasis-open.org with = = the following in the body of the message: = = unsubscribe ebxml-awareness = = If you are subscribed using a different email address, put the = = address you subscribed with at the end of the line; e.g. = = unsubscribe ebxml-awareness myname@company.com = ======================================================================= ======================================================================= = This is ebxml-awareness, the general mailing list for the ebXML = = Marketing and Awareness project team. The owner of this list is = = owner-ebxml-awareness@oasis-open.org = = = = To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@lists.oasis-open.org with = = the following in the body of the message: = = unsubscribe ebxml-awareness = = If you are subscribed using a different email address, put the = = address you subscribed with at the end of the line; e.g. = = unsubscribe ebxml-awareness myname@company.com = =======================================================================   Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by oasis.oasis-open.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA03800 for ebxml-awareness-out; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 21:45:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from maynard.mail.mindspring.net (maynard.mail.mindspring.net [207.69.200.243]) by oasis.oasis-open.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA03757 for ; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 21:32:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from y7w4y (tfx-us15-164.ix.netcom.com [207.94.236.164]) by maynard.mail.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA04583; Tue, 6 Jun 2000 21:32:18 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: From: "Rachel Foerster" To: Cc: Subject: RE: Education & Awareness Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 14:40:01 -0500 Message-ID: <000101bfd020$4ae1b4e0$a4ec5ecf@y7w4y> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook CWS, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <393CC9EC.497271C0@postoffice.pacbell.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Sender: owner-ebxml-awareness@lists.oasis-open.org Precedence: bulk Sean, While your ideas about promoting XML are good, they are a bit outside the scope of the ebXML Marketing, Awareness & Education Project Team's role. Last November at our initial meeting the team decided that we should not expend effort on promoting XML in general but rather focus our efforts on the ebXML Initiative. There are myriad sources for general XML education and promotion. There is way to much for us to do to effectively address ebXML and providing awareness and education about the ebXML products without fragmenting our efforts and focus to XML in general. Thanks for your suggestions. Rachel -----Original Message----- From: owner-ebxml-awareness@lists.oasis-open.org [mailto:owner-ebxml-awareness@lists.oasis-open.org]On Behalf Of S. Champ Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2000 4:53 AM To: rachelf@ix.netcom.com; ebXML-awareness@lists.oasis-open.org Subject: Re: Education & Awareness getting the word out: we could probably use a "this is XML" pamphlet, in digital and hard-copy formats. also, some words about EDI. and, probably, a copy of: http://www.ebxml.org/working/project_teams/core_components/simpl-edi.pdf ( sans the "messages" section ) also, I'd like to emphasize point "h", given below. ( and apologies that it's given that far down the list. a possible remedy for such as this is mentioned in point "b" ) a) towards an XML-based document-architecture, and a good countenance on the public-available ebXML proposals and other docs: I've got something tabled here, which is supposed to be able to format XML to PDF. this should be ideal for multi-format document-output (eg: XSLT of XML to each target-format { HTML, PDF, plain-text , ... } ). http://xml.apache.org/fop "FOP" == "Formatting Object Parser" ( "Formatting Objects" == a core part of the w3c XSL spec. also, a nice construct for digital documentation. ( re: "typesetting" ... ) ) b) started working towards some sort of an XML-based email system, here. ( XSLT, SMTP, LDAP? ...) currently: needing to dig through the FSF "Gnu" tools, for a standalone mailer. ..and maybe through some other "OSS" project-sites ( not a few of them, there are) , thence (likely) to use some TCL/TK to glue that mailer together with the 'XT' XSLT-engine. ( just as the Gnu tools generally are, XT is free. == good for the budgeting, no? ) c) ( glad that the message-filtering is fixed, on this emailer, now. apologies, for not speaking-up on any of this, sooner. it was all being shuffled of to the local 'XML-Apache' catchbins. ) d) could a person find employment, working on some ebXML docs and doc-systems? ( "aspiring information-architect" | "freelance writer" has bills to pay, could use a good Java-book or two, needs a job. ) e) if a distribution of the "Simple-EDI" doc, w/o the messages-section, seems like a good idea, I should be able to contact Mr. Whittle, about the same. please state so, if it should be pursued. f) sidebar: we could use: 1) an XML-based messaging system. 2) a commitment from folks to send along XML source of any MS-word or other-format document, and maybe a working-group-node about the same. 3) some data about who's using which of: - Operating-System - ms-[word|office]-version - web-UA ( "browser" ) type and version (eg: MSIE ==> in-built [XML+XSL]-ability) & "does your email software have HTML capability?" ...among the members of the ebXML WGs I should file seperate proposals about these, and need to check-in on the progress of the ebXML core XML-schemas (if|when filed, the proposals will likely have XML source with XSL stylesheets available, though likely submitted as emailed-plain-text with HTML-copy attatched. this is related to point f.1 ) g) some simple, practical, examples of the usage of XML should be helpful. - resume-example: I can send along a URL, or a copy, of an XSL stylesheet that I've used for building a resume from XML source-data, if it was requested. ( needing to build the schema or DTD for the source-doc, too, and should be able to get that done shortly, on-request ) - other examples ??? 1) "typical-scenario" cases would be appropriate 2) shop-time would be helpful, re: examples-building. and|or a map, of typical "workflow" points ( and|or a collection thereof ) 3) anyone know of some good demonstrative EDI systems, worth a note and/or interview, re: ebXML ? h) regarding ebXML-awareness: some collaboration with the U.S. "Small Business Administration" should be in-order. and a list of target-organizations among other nations should also be good for a work-point. i) someone had mentioned something about "keeping track of things". methinks we need some good group-ware. the document side of it it ought to be purely XML-based, or as much so as possible. I came across some TCL/TK-based groupware, but this should probably be addressed to "ebXML-core". bearing-down at some pending XML-wrapping-around-document.this, -- sean champ s-champ@pacbell.net docsys_x@hotmail.com Rachel Foerster wrote: > > Mike, > > Not yet....we've been focusing first on getting the word out about ebXML in > general. > > However, I agree with you. Do you have any ideas to kick start this? I'm > copying the entire Marketing team to start a discussion going on this need. > > Thanks for bringing it up. Why not join us and help us create some material > along these lines? > > Rachel > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike Evanoff [mailto:evanoffm@mantech-wva.com] > Sent: Sunday, June 04, 2000 8:14 AM > To: rachelf@ix.netcom.com > Subject: Education & Awareness > > Rachel, > > I'm finding that folks already doing X12 EDI sorely need to have some > education on how they can start understanding how to plan for embracing > ebXML.....does your group have any material addressing this topic area? > > Sincerely, > > Michael D. Evanoff, Technical Director > ManTech Advanced Systems International, Inc. > (304) 368-4137, www.mantech-wva.com, www.dcnicn.com/XMLEDICentral/ > > ======================================================================= > = This is ebxml-awareness, the general mailing list for the ebXML = > = Marketing and Awareness project team. The owner of this list is = > = owner-ebxml-awareness@oasis-open.org = > = = > = To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@lists.oasis-open.org with = > = the following in the body of the message: = > = unsubscribe ebxml-awareness = > = If you are subscribed using a different email address, put the = > = address you subscribed with at the end of the line; e.g. = > = unsubscribe ebxml-awareness myname@company.com = > ======================================================================= ======================================================================= = This is ebxml-awareness, the general mailing list for the ebXML = = Marketing and Awareness project team. The owner of this list is = = owner-ebxml-awareness@oasis-open.org = = = = To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@lists.oasis-open.org with = = the following in the body of the message: = = unsubscribe ebxml-awareness = = If you are subscribed using a different email address, put the = = address you subscribed with at the end of the line; e.g. = = unsubscribe ebxml-awareness myname@company.com = ======================================================================= ======================================================================= = This is ebxml-awareness, the general mailing list for the ebXML = = Marketing and Awareness project team. The owner of this list is = = owner-ebxml-awareness@oasis-open.org = = = = To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@lists.oasis-open.org with = = the following in the body of the message: = = unsubscribe ebxml-awareness = = If you are subscribed using a different email address, put the = = address you subscribed with at the end of the line; e.g. = = unsubscribe ebxml-awareness myname@company.com = =======================================================================   Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by oasis.oasis-open.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id VAA00268 for ebxml-awareness-out; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 21:38:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from janus.hosting4u.net (janus.hosting4u.net [209.15.2.37]) by oasis.oasis-open.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA00217 for ; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 21:32:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 1257 invoked from network); 11 Jun 2000 01:32:38 -0000 Received: from aquarius.hosting4u.net (HELO foresightcorp.com) (209.15.2.40) by mail-gate.communitech.net with SMTP; 11 Jun 2000 01:32:38 -0000 Received: from williamk ([209.81.216.254]) by foresightcorp.com ; Sat, 10 Jun 2000 20:32:34 -0500 Message-ID: <03ac01bfd40d$aaf1cd20$367cd6d8@williamk> From: "William J. Kammerer" To: "ebXML List" , "'ebXML Marketing Awareness Education (E-mail)'" Subject: Introducing ebXML article in XML-Journal Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 21:29:31 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-ebxml-awareness@lists.oasis-open.org Precedence: bulk The June 2000 Issue of XML-Journal includes "Introducing ebXML," by Bob Sutor, vice chair of ebXML, at http://www.sys-con.com/xml/archives/0102/sutor/. William J. Kammerer FORESIGHT Corp. 4950 Blazer Memorial Pkwy. Dublin, OH USA 43017-3305 (614) 791-1600 Visit FORESIGHT Corp. at http://www.foresightcorp.com/ "Commerce for a New World" ======================================================================= = This is ebxml-awareness, the general mailing list for the ebXML = = Marketing and Awareness project team. The owner of this list is = = owner-ebxml-awareness@oasis-open.org = = = = To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@lists.oasis-open.org with = = the following in the body of the message: = = unsubscribe ebxml-awareness = = If you are subscribed using a different email address, put the = = address you subscribed with at the end of the line; e.g. = = unsubscribe ebxml-awareness myname@company.com = =======================================================================   Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by oasis.oasis-open.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id LAA13994 for ebxml-awareness-out; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 11:21:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from enterprise.disa.org (garnet.disa.org [216.2.91.21]) by oasis.oasis-open.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA13520; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 11:01:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from SMTP agent by mail gateway Mon, 12 Jun 2000 11:00:27 -0500 Received: from [10.0.0.24] by enterprise.disa.org (NTMail 5.05.0002/NT3116.00.383cb209) with ESMTP id zalfbaaa for ebXML@lists.oasis-open.org; Mon, 12 Jun 2000 10:53:04 -0400 Message-Id: <4.2.0.58.20000612105200.00a74560@enterprise.disa.org> X-Sender: akotok@enterprise.disa.org X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 10:57:37 -0400 To: "William J. Kammerer" , "ebXML List" , "'ebXML Marketing Awareness Education (E-mail)'" From: Alan Kotok Subject: Re: Introducing ebXML article in XML-Journal In-Reply-To: <03ac01bfd40d$aaf1cd20$367cd6d8@williamk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-ebxml-awareness@lists.oasis-open.org Precedence: bulk William, et al. Thanks for sharing that article. Java World had an interview with Bill Smith of Sun Microsystems on ebXML. See http://www.javaworld.com/javaworld/javaone00/j1-00-ebxml.html . Best regards. Alan Kotok Director, Education and Information Resources Data Interchange Standards Association akotok@disa.org +1 703-518-4174 At 09:29 PM 6/11/00 -0400, William J. Kammerer wrote: >The June 2000 Issue of XML-Journal includes "Introducing ebXML," by Bob >Sutor, vice chair of ebXML, at >http://www.sys-con.com/xml/archives/0102/sutor/. > >William J. Kammerer >FORESIGHT Corp. >4950 Blazer Memorial Pkwy. >Dublin, OH USA 43017-3305 >(614) 791-1600 > >Visit FORESIGHT Corp. at http://www.foresightcorp.com/ >"Commerce for a New World" > > > > > >======================================================================= >= This is ebxml-awareness, the general mailing list for the ebXML = >= Marketing and Awareness project team. The owner of this list is = >= owner-ebxml-awareness@oasis-open.org = >= = >= To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@lists.oasis-open.org with = >= the following in the body of the message: = >= unsubscribe ebxml-awareness = >= If you are subscribed using a different email address, put the = >= address you subscribed with at the end of the line; e.g. = >= unsubscribe ebxml-awareness myname@company.com = >======================================================================= Alan Kotok akotok@disa.org +1 703-518-4174 ======================================================================= = This is ebxml-awareness, the general mailing list for the ebXML = = Marketing and Awareness project team. The owner of this list is = = owner-ebxml-awareness@oasis-open.org = = = = To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@lists.oasis-open.org with = = the following in the body of the message: = = unsubscribe ebxml-awareness = = If you are subscribed using a different email address, put the = = address you subscribed with at the end of the line; e.g. = = unsubscribe ebxml-awareness myname@company.com = =======================================================================   Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by oasis.oasis-open.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA25242 for ebxml-awareness-out; Tue, 20 Jun 2000 10:22:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mx-01a.tycoelectronics.com (mx-01a.tycoelectronics.com [12.26.84.138]) by oasis.oasis-open.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA25172; Tue, 20 Jun 2000 10:18:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ammexh02.amp.com (map012026084188.amp.com [12.26.84.188]) by mx-01a.tycoelectronics.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA18953; Tue, 20 Jun 2000 10:18:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ammex001.amp.com ([163.241.175.7]) by ammexh02.amp.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2651.58) id N24Y88NC; Tue, 20 Jun 2000 10:18:37 -0400 Received: by ammex001.amp.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2651.58) id ; Tue, 20 Jun 2000 10:18:36 -0400 Message-ID: <9F3CF963BEC9D211A5C500805F15A0F305E0154E@ammex004.macom.com> From: "Boynton, Dennis" To: "'ebXML@lists.oasis-open.org'" Cc: "'ebxml-awareness@lists.oasis-open.org'" Subject: Suggestion for ebXML Knowledge Dissemination Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 10:18:34 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2651.58) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-ebxml-awareness@lists.oasis-open.org Precedence: bulk All, I am a mostly inactive member of the ebXML Awareness committee. I joined because I thought the concept was great, wanted to follow the development of this project, and hopefully learn as much as possible. As new organizations jump on the XML bandwagon, it is especially important that the superficially initiated (like me) understand where ebXML stands, and is headed. When I see a report, for instance, that says the new DaimlerChrysler-Ford-GM B2B marketplace wants to have their DDL adopted as the industry standard, I shutter. Is this ANSI X12 2001FORD all over again? If I knew for sure what ebXML is trying to do in areas like this, I think I would feel better. I really don't get a cozy feeling about it from looking at Requirements Specification Drafts, mainly because I'm not sufficiently knowledgeable in the subject areas to fully understand the content, and the Specifications are too long. My suggestion is that each group sent an update to Awareness on a regular basis, and that the Awareness group collect, collate, edit and publish them over the Awareness listserv. This update does not need to be extensive, just a paragraph, or two, to describe the progress that has been made. It can refer folks to deeper levels of documentation, but the update itself should just be a newsletter type piece of literature. Suggestions, comments, whatever are all welcome. It would be nice to hear what other groups might be doing in this area. Denny Boynton Interim EDI Manager M/A-COM, Inc 978 442 4329 boyntond@tycoelectronics.com ======================================================================= = This is ebxml-awareness, the general mailing list for the ebXML = = Marketing and Awareness project team. The owner of this list is = = owner-ebxml-awareness@oasis-open.org = = = = To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@lists.oasis-open.org with = = the following in the body of the message: = = unsubscribe ebxml-awareness = = If you are subscribed using a different email address, put the = = address you subscribed with at the end of the line; e.g. = = unsubscribe ebxml-awareness myname@company.com = =======================================================================   Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by oasis.oasis-open.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id MAA05212 for ebxml-awareness-out; Wed, 21 Jun 2000 12:43:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from janus.hosting4u.net (janus.hosting4u.net [209.15.2.37]) by oasis.oasis-open.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id MAA04917 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2000 12:32:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 12173 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2000 16:32:47 -0000 Received: from aquarius.hosting4u.net (HELO foresightcorp.com) (209.15.2.40) by mail-gate.hosting4u.net with SMTP; 21 Jun 2000 16:32:47 -0000 Received: from williamk ([63.140.112.2]) by foresightcorp.com ; Wed, 21 Jun 2000 11:32:45 -0500 Message-ID: <015e01bfdb9f$b9ea8260$120101c1@williamk> From: "William J. Kammerer" To: "Boynton, Dennis" Cc: "ebXML Awareness Team" References: <9F3CF963BEC9D211A5C500805F15A0F305E0154F@ammex004.macom.com> Subject: Re: Suggestion for ebXML Knowledge Dissemination Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 12:42:42 -0400 Organization: FORESIGHT Corp. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-ebxml-awareness@lists.oasis-open.org Precedence: bulk Dennis: It's good to hear from even "inactive" members of the ebXML Awareness team! Thanks for writing. I don't think ebXML is addressing marketplaces, like the Covisint Auto supply chain B2B exchange. The ebXML initiative is all about interoperable B2B standards; if a bunch of trading partners (in this case GM, Ford, Chrysler and their suppliers) all decide to use a common hunk of software or an ASP, then it stands to reason there's no need for an open standard. Covisint can enforce use of its own proprietary XML-based protocols. If Covisint becomes more than a MRO marketplace (which was never that automated before the advent of the internet anyway) and moves into direct procurement, then Covisint has to invent EDI all over again (just like RosettaNet did). ebXML is meant to bring all these re-invention efforts under one umbrella, so at least a common framework is employed. As an aside, there must have been something wrong with proprietary "exchanges" in the past because things like the drug industry's OrderNet and the hard goods' Eagle were eventually overtaken by X12. The ebXML Requirements Specification are indeed hard to read, as are all the ebXML specification drafts issued so far (with the possible exception of the TR&P specs). They're generally lacking an overview and problem statement (i.e., why are we doing this?, what was wrong with EDI in this area?, what does XML technology bring to the table?, Who's the real customer [of the specs]?, etc.) which might make it easier for the EDI folks to comprehend the need for ebXML. The obsession with UML diagramming and modeling doesn't help either: page after page of gussied-up flowcharts doesn't tell me what the heck is going on. Am I alone in this? This is why I don't really know what's going on in the Repository and Registry Group or the Business Process Group. I'm somewhat more comfortable with the output of the TR&P group, because I have a vague notion that there's real benefit, in that the mishmash of standards concerned with routing, transport and security can be thrown away eventually (e.g., EDIINT AS1 and AS2, EDIFACT ISO 9735, X12.5 and X12.58, RosettaNet RNIF, BizTalk framework, etc.). But this was never stated as a goal or advantage in the TR&P specifications. I don't think it would help much for "each group [send] an update to Awareness on a regular basis" and that we could "collect, collate, edit and publish them over the Awareness listserv." I'd rather have a few English sentences from each group describing what they want to accomplish. I've tried to read through the Architecture and Registry and Repository draft specs, and have only gotten the vaguest notion that ebXML will support something like the CommerceNet eCO Framework's registry whereby I can query other ebXML users for the services they offer, effectively eliminating the cumbersome trading partner maintenance common today in EDI systems. William J. Kammerer FORESIGHT Corp. 4950 Blazer Memorial Pkwy. Dublin, OH USA 43017-3305 (614) 791-1600 Visit FORESIGHT Corp. at http://www.foresightcorp.com/ "Commerce for a New World" ----- Original Message ----- From: Boynton, Dennis To: Cc: Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2000 10:18 AM Subject: Suggestion for ebXML Knowledge Dissemination All, I am a mostly inactive member of the ebXML Awareness committee. I joined because I thought the concept was great, wanted to follow the development of this project, and hopefully learn as much as possible. As new organizations jump on the XML bandwagon, it is especially important that the superficially initiated (like me) understand where ebXML stands, and is headed. When I see a report, for instance, that says the new DaimlerChrysler-Ford-GM B2B marketplace wants to have their DDL adopted as the industry standard, I shutter. Is this ANSI X12 2001FORD all over again? If I knew for sure what ebXML is trying to do in areas like this, I think I would feel better. I really don't get a cozy feeling about it from looking at Requirements Specification Drafts, mainly because I'm not sufficiently knowledgeable in the subject areas to fully understand the content, and the Specifications are too long. My suggestion is that each group sent an update to Awareness on a regular basis, and that the Awareness group collect, collate, edit and publish them over the Awareness listserv. This update does not need to be extensive, just a paragraph, or two, to describe the progress that has been made. It can refer folks to deeper levels of documentation, but the update itself should just be a newsletter type piece of literature. Suggestions, comments, whatever are all welcome. It would be nice to hear what other groups might be doing in this area. Denny Boynton Interim EDI Manager M/A-COM, Inc 978 442 4329 boyntond@tycoelectronics.com ======================================================================= = This is ebxml-awareness, the general mailing list for the ebXML = = Marketing and Awareness project team. The owner of this list is = = owner-ebxml-awareness@oasis-open.org = = = = To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@lists.oasis-open.org with = = the following in the body of the message: = = unsubscribe ebxml-awareness = = If you are subscribed using a different email address, put the = = address you subscribed with at the end of the line; e.g. = = unsubscribe ebxml-awareness myname@company.com = =======================================================================   Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by oasis.oasis-open.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id NAA07082 for ebxml-awareness-out; Wed, 21 Jun 2000 13:41:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from postal.interaccess.com (from.interaccess.com [207.208.131.20]) by oasis.oasis-open.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA06881 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2000 13:30:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d224.focal6.interaccess.com (d171.focal5.interaccess.com [207.208.188.171]) by postal.interaccess.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id MAA26880 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2000 12:30:30 -0500 (CDT) Received: by d224.focal6.interaccess.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BFDB7C.4EAF4440@d224.focal6.interaccess.com>; Wed, 21 Jun 2000 12:29:13 -0500 Message-ID: <01BFDB7C.4EAF4440@d224.focal6.interaccess.com> From: Bob Haugen To: ebXML Awareness Team Subject: RE: Suggestion for ebXML Knowledge Dissemination Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 12:28:32 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ebxml-awareness@lists.oasis-open.org Precedence: bulk William Kammerer wrote: >I don't think ebXML is addressing marketplaces, like the Covisint Auto >supply chain B2B exchange. The ebXML initiative is all about >interoperable B2B standards; if a bunch of trading partners (in this >case GM, Ford, Chrysler and their suppliers) all decide to use a common >hunk of software or an ASP, then it stands to reason there's no need for >an open standard. Covisint can enforce use of its own proprietary >XML-based protocols. If Covisint becomes more than a MRO marketplace >(which was never that automated before the advent of the internet >anyway) and moves into direct procurement, then Covisint has to invent >EDI all over again (just like RosettaNet did). The ebXML Business Process team is working through an auto procurement example that might help to standardize Covisint direct procurement. The info is coming from AIAG, the Automotive Industry Action Group. It remains to be seen how successful this effort will be - certainly ebXML can move ahead without it - but the intent is a baby step toward standardization of direct supply chain procurement. A rough draft is at the end of the Business Process Tech Specs at: http://www.ebxml.org/working/project_teams/business_process/ebXML_BP_PT_TechnicalSpec5.25.00.pdf (watch for word wrap) >The obsession with UML diagramming and modeling doesn't help either: >page after page of gussied-up flowcharts doesn't tell me what the heck >is going on. Am I alone in this? This is why I don't really know >what's going on in the Repository and Registry Group or the Business >Process Group. Sorry, the document referenced above commits the UML offense repeatedly. On the other hand, I published a couple of all-text versions before the UML version, and people found them difficult to decipher, too. I suspect it is the difference between writing a spec and writing a simple explanation. Lots of the XML specs have had this problem, too. I promise to write a simple explanation after the attempt at a precise spec gets approved. Regards, Bob Haugen ebXML Business Process team member ======================================================================= = This is ebxml-awareness, the general mailing list for the ebXML = = Marketing and Awareness project team. The owner of this list is = = owner-ebxml-awareness@oasis-open.org = = = = To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@lists.oasis-open.org with = = the following in the body of the message: = = unsubscribe ebxml-awareness = = If you are subscribed using a different email address, put the = = address you subscribed with at the end of the line; e.g. = = unsubscribe ebxml-awareness myname@company.com = =======================================================================   Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by oasis.oasis-open.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id TAA16143 for ebxml-awareness-out; Wed, 21 Jun 2000 19:21:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from janus.hosting4u.net (janus.hosting4u.net [209.15.2.37]) by oasis.oasis-open.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA16048 for ; Wed, 21 Jun 2000 19:14:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 15360 invoked from network); 21 Jun 2000 23:14:34 -0000 Received: from aquarius.hosting4u.net (HELO foresightcorp.com) (209.15.2.40) by mail-gate.hosting4u.net with SMTP; 21 Jun 2000 23:14:34 -0000 Received: from williamk ([63.140.112.2]) by foresightcorp.com ; Wed, 21 Jun 2000 18:14:32 -0500 Message-ID: <030701bfdbd7$d4d45500$120101c1@williamk> From: "William J. Kammerer" To: "Bob Haugen" Cc: "ebXML Awareness Team" References: <01BFDB7C.4EAF4440@d224.focal6.interaccess.com> Subject: Re: Suggestion for ebXML Knowledge Dissemination Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 19:24:10 -0400 Organization: FORESIGHT Corp. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-ebxml-awareness@lists.oasis-open.org Precedence: bulk Bob Haugen apologized for there being too many UML diagrams in the Business Process Tech Spec. He continues: "On the other hand, I published a couple of all-text versions before the UML version, and people found them difficult to decipher, too. I suspect it is the difference between writing a spec and writing a simple explanation. Lots of the XML specs have had this problem, too. I promise to write a simple explanation after the attempt at a precise spec gets approved." Bob: It may just be me. My eyes glaze over when I see all these flowcharts with boxes labeled "Economic Resource Type" pointing via geegaws that "govern" or whatnot. I don't have patience for this stuff - it's like reading tons of C++ and Java code in programming books. I can actually read the W3C XML stuff - text and a few diagrams don't intimidate me! I have glanced over some of your and Bill McCarthy's REA stuff at http://www.supplychainlinks.com/ and it was eminently readable. How much of REA transferred over (or will be adapted) into ebXML's BP? And if a lot, then at a minimum the BP Tech spec should have a bibliography referring to the REA papers so ordinary mortals who hate flowcharts can figure out what BP is doing. William J. Kammerer FORESIGHT Corp. 4950 Blazer Memorial Pkwy. Dublin, OH USA 43017-3305 (614) 791-1600 Visit FORESIGHT Corp. at http://www.foresightcorp.com/ "Commerce for a New World" ======================================================================= = This is ebxml-awareness, the general mailing list for the ebXML = = Marketing and Awareness project team. The owner of this list is = = owner-ebxml-awareness@oasis-open.org = = = = To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@lists.oasis-open.org with = = the following in the body of the message: = = unsubscribe ebxml-awareness = = If you are subscribed using a different email address, put the = = address you subscribed with at the end of the line; e.g. = = unsubscribe ebxml-awareness myname@company.com = =======================================================================   Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by oasis.oasis-open.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id IAA04642 for ebxml-awareness-out; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 08:41:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mcfeely.interaccess.com (from.interaccess.com [207.208.131.20]) by oasis.oasis-open.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA04493 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 08:31:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d113.focal2.interaccess.com (d15.focal5.interaccess.com [207.208.188.15]) by mcfeely.interaccess.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id HAA12403; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 07:31:03 -0500 (CDT) Received: by d113.focal2.interaccess.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BFDC1B.A36E3640@d113.focal2.interaccess.com>; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 07:29:45 -0500 Message-ID: <01BFDC1B.A36E3640@d113.focal2.interaccess.com> From: Bob Haugen To: "'William J. Kammerer'" Cc: ebXML Awareness Team Subject: RE: Suggestion for ebXML Knowledge Dissemination Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 06:35:44 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ebxml-awareness@lists.oasis-open.org Precedence: bulk William Kammerer wrote: >Bob Haugen apologized for there being too many UML diagrams in the >Business Process Tech Spec. I wouldn't accept the word "apologize" - maybe "empathize with people who did not like them". Some people, including most of the BP team members, liked the diagrams better than the text. Other people, like yourself, did not like the diagrams. At any rate, we were mandated to use UML. >It may just be me. My eyes glaze over when I see all these flowcharts >with boxes labeled "Economic Resource Type" pointing via geegaws that >"govern" or whatnot. It's not just you, but maybe it's a "two kinds of people" thing. Or maybe it's just that more people are getting familiar with UML. Or maybe the big diagram is too complicated - too much on one page. Did you have the same problem with the other diagrams? >I have glanced over some of your and Bill McCarthy's REA stuff at >http://www.supplychainlinks.com/ and it was eminently readable. Thank you very much. That gives me hope that it's just not my writing style. I do promise to (help to) produce a simpler overview once the spec is approved. >How >much of REA transferred over (or will be adapted) into ebXML's BP? One of the five "sub-groupings", Resources and Contracts, came mostly from REA. The others came from a combination of Edifecs/RosettaNet, CommerceNet/eCo, SWIFT, OMG's EDOC, HL7, and WFMC (Work Flow Management Coalition). (I hope I didn't leave anybody out...) >And >if a lot, then at a minimum the BP Tech spec should have a bibliography >referring to the REA papers so ordinary mortals who hate flowcharts can >figure out what BP is doing. I agree on bibliography, and will see that it gets added to the issues list. (All the sources should be cited.) There will also be at least some more text in the next revision; probably more yet in the revision after that. Thanks for your comments, Bob Haugen ======================================================================= = This is ebxml-awareness, the general mailing list for the ebXML = = Marketing and Awareness project team. The owner of this list is = = owner-ebxml-awareness@oasis-open.org = = = = To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@lists.oasis-open.org with = = the following in the body of the message: = = unsubscribe ebxml-awareness = = If you are subscribed using a different email address, put the = = address you subscribed with at the end of the line; e.g. = = unsubscribe ebxml-awareness myname@company.com = =======================================================================   Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by oasis.oasis-open.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id PAA13807 for ebxml-awareness-out; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 15:02:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from janus.hosting4u.net (janus.hosting4u.net [209.15.2.37]) by oasis.oasis-open.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA13619 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 14:49:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: (qmail 15053 invoked from network); 22 Jun 2000 18:49:57 -0000 Received: from aquarius.hosting4u.net (HELO foresightcorp.com) (209.15.2.40) by mail-gate.hosting4u.net with SMTP; 22 Jun 2000 18:49:57 -0000 Received: from williamk ([63.140.112.2]) by foresightcorp.com ; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 13:49:54 -0500 Message-ID: <020501bfdc7b$fba44c40$120101c1@williamk> From: "William J. Kammerer" To: "Bob Haugen" Cc: "ebXML Awareness Team" References: <01BFDC1B.A36E3640@d113.focal2.interaccess.com> Subject: Re: Suggestion for ebXML Knowledge Dissemination Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 14:59:20 -0400 Organization: FORESIGHT Corp. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Sender: owner-ebxml-awareness@lists.oasis-open.org Precedence: bulk Dear Bob: Yes, I realize use of UML was "mandated. But pretty much all the UML diagrams give me a headache - perhaps I need to take the UML for Dummies class. And the ebXML Business Process Metamodel on Page 4 of the BP First Draft is out of this world; I would call it spaghetti-code. It would help if boxes were the same size, for two reasons: 1) esthetic considerations, and 2) not give the impression that one is more important than another just because its name is longer. If anything, the most important object is the "party", because it has the most number lines coming in and out of it (whatever the technical term is for "plays", "classifies", "participates", etc.), but yet it has the smallest box! The UML diagram should take advantage of the visual biases in the brain - maybe "party" should be a cute little puppy or baby so the eye focuses there! The Use Cases were easier to understand, because obviously they're at a lower level of abstraction and use little stick figures doing things that even a concrete-bound muscle mystic can comprehend. I'll trust BP that the collaboration diagrams somehow map onto the metamodel; I'm not going to double-check them. But when we're all done with this, what do we expect out of the Business Process model? Is this somehow going to be put into XMI or something that ebXML compliant software can read to control the processes? I.e., the process would ensure that the authorization for raw materials, fabrication and shipment occur seriatim (taking the Scheduling Use case for example). You mentioned that all but the Resources and Contracts metamodel sub-grouping came from a combination of Edifecs/RosettaNet, CommerceNet/eCo, SWIFT, OMG's EDOC, HL7, and WFMC (Work Flow Management Coalition). What's the deal with the "Edifecs/RosettaNet" model? Is *it* the RosettaNet model, or not? And if so, why not just call it the "RosettaNet" model? William J. Kammerer FORESIGHT Corp. 4950 Blazer Memorial Pkwy. Dublin, OH USA 43017-3305 (614) 791-1600 Visit FORESIGHT Corp. at http://www.foresightcorp.com/ "Commerce for a New World" ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Haugen To: 'William J. Kammerer' Cc: ebXML Awareness Team Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2000 7:35 AM Subject: RE: Suggestion for ebXML Knowledge Dissemination William Kammerer wrote: >Bob Haugen apologized for there being too many UML diagrams in the >Business Process Tech Spec. I wouldn't accept the word "apologize" - maybe "empathize with people who did not like them". Some people, including most of the BP team members, liked the diagrams better than the text. Other people, like yourself, did not like the diagrams. At any rate, we were mandated to use UML. >It may just be me. My eyes glaze over when I see all these flowcharts >with boxes labeled "Economic Resource Type" pointing via geegaws that >"govern" or whatnot. It's not just you, but maybe it's a "two kinds of people" thing. Or maybe it's just that more people are getting familiar with UML. Or maybe the big diagram is too complicated - too much on one page. Did you have the same problem with the other diagrams? >I have glanced over some of your and Bill McCarthy's REA stuff at >http://www.supplychainlinks.com/ and it was eminently readable. Thank you very much. That gives me hope that it's just not my writing style. I do promise to (help to) produce a simpler overview once the spec is approved. >How >much of REA transferred over (or will be adapted) into ebXML's BP? One of the five "sub-groupings", Resources and Contracts, came mostly from REA. The others came from a combination of Edifecs/RosettaNet, CommerceNet/eCo, SWIFT, OMG's EDOC, HL7, and WFMC (Work Flow Management Coalition). (I hope I didn't leave anybody out...) >And >if a lot, then at a minimum the BP Tech spec should have a bibliography >referring to the REA papers so ordinary mortals who hate flowcharts can >figure out what BP is doing. I agree on bibliography, and will see that it gets added to the issues list. (All the sources should be cited.) There will also be at least some more text in the next revision; probably more yet in the revision after that. Thanks for your comments, Bob Haugen ======================================================================= = This is ebxml-awareness, the general mailing list for the ebXML = = Marketing and Awareness project team. The owner of this list is = = owner-ebxml-awareness@oasis-open.org = = = = To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@lists.oasis-open.org with = = the following in the body of the message: = = unsubscribe ebxml-awareness = = If you are subscribed using a different email address, put the = = address you subscribed with at the end of the line; e.g. = = unsubscribe ebxml-awareness myname@company.com = =======================================================================   Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by oasis.oasis-open.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id QAA15869 for ebxml-awareness-out; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 16:03:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from postal.interaccess.com (from.interaccess.com [207.208.131.20]) by oasis.oasis-open.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA15392 for ; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 15:52:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d113.focal2.interaccess.com (d76.focal7.interaccess.com [207.208.187.76]) by postal.interaccess.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) with SMTP id OAA16197; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 14:52:15 -0500 (CDT) Received: by d113.focal2.interaccess.com with Microsoft Mail id <01BFDC59.4584E2C0@d113.focal2.interaccess.com>; Thu, 22 Jun 2000 14:50:56 -0500 Message-ID: <01BFDC59.4584E2C0@d113.focal2.interaccess.com> From: Bob Haugen To: "'William J. Kammerer'" Cc: "'ebXML Awareness Team'" Subject: RE: Suggestion for ebXML Knowledge Dissemination Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 14:50:45 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ebxml-awareness@lists.oasis-open.org Precedence: bulk William Kammerer wrote: >the ebXML Business Process Metamodel on Page 4 of the BP >First Draft is out of this world; I would call it spaghetti-code. I agree, it is too complex. The next revision (due next week) will not be any better. I'll raise an issue from your suggestions to find a way to simplify for the rev after that. [good ideas snipped but filed for future reference] >The Use Cases were easier to understand Good. At least we're moving in the right direction. (Those were done much later than the first big diagram.) >I'll trust BP >that the collaboration diagrams somehow map onto the metamodel; I'm not >going to double-check them. They had a few listed problems; the next rev should map much closer to 100%. >But when we're all done with this, what do we expect out of the Business >Process model? Is this somehow going to be put into XMI or something >that ebXML compliant software can read to control the processes? I.e., >the process would ensure that the authorization for raw materials, >fabrication and shipment occur seriatim (taking the Scheduling Use case >for example). A lot of the usage remains to be determined. The only official statements are those included in the TechSpec Scenarios, in which the BP model will be incorporated in repositories. We also expect the core components and BP model to align with each other, although that will be a two-way street. Informally, I could say: 1) The BP model is not all mandatory; that is, it is designed to be used in pieces, so that for example simple one-off purchase orders would use a little, while contract procurement might use a lot. 2) The model contains optional rules that could ensure proper sequencing of process steps. 3) I don't expect ebXML to produce software. 4) I do expect the BP model to influence software companies. Am I making any sense? -Bob Haugen ======================================================================= = This is ebxml-awareness, the general mailing list for the ebXML = = Marketing and Awareness project team. The owner of this list is = = owner-ebxml-awareness@oasis-open.org = = = = To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@lists.oasis-open.org with = = the following in the body of the message: = = unsubscribe ebxml-awareness = = If you are subscribed using a different email address, put the = = address you subscribed with at the end of the line; e.g. = = unsubscribe ebxml-awareness myname@company.com = =======================================================================   Return-Path: Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by oasis.oasis-open.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) id RAA25259 for ebxml-awareness-out; Mon, 26 Jun 2000 17:41:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from e23.nc.us.ibm.com (e23.nc.us.ibm.com [32.97.136.229]) by oasis.oasis-open.org (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA25217; Mon, 26 Jun 2000 17:40:30 -0400 (EDT) From: srh@us.ibm.com Received: from southrelay02.raleigh.ibm.com (southrelay02.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.3.209]) by e23.nc.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA10974; Mon, 26 Jun 2000 17:19:20 -0500 Received: from d54mta01.raleigh.ibm.com (d54mta01.raleigh.ibm.com [9.67.228.33]) by southrelay02.raleigh.ibm.com (8.8.8m3/NCO v4.9) with SMTP id RAA47334; Mon, 26 Jun 2000 17:40:30 -0400 Received: by d54mta01.raleigh.ibm.com(Lotus SMTP MTA v4.6.5 (863.2 5-20-1999)) id 8525690A.00770FC3 ; Mon, 26 Jun 2000 17:40:28 -0400 X-Lotus-FromDomain: IBMUS To: Bob Haugen cc: "'William J. Kammerer'" , "'ebXML Awareness Team'" , ebXML-BP@lists.oasis-open.org Message-ID: <8525690A.00770D7F.00@d54mta01.raleigh.ibm.com> Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 10:07:12 -0500 Subject: RE: Suggestion for ebXML Knowledge Dissemination Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Sender: owner-ebxml-awareness@lists.oasis-open.org Precedence: bulk But when we're all done with this, what do we expect out of the Business>Process model? Is this somehow going to be put into XMI or something that ebXML compliant software can read to control the processes? I.e., the process would ensure that the authorization for raw materials, fabrication and shipment occur seriatim (taking the Scheduling Use case for example). A lot of the usage remains to be determined. The only official statements are those included in the TechSpec Scenarios, in which the BP model will be incorporated in repositories. We also expect the core components and BP model to align with each other, although that will be a two-way street. Informally, I could say: 1) The BP model is not all mandatory; that is, it is designed to be used in pieces, so that for example simple one-off purchase orders would use a little, while contract procurement might use a lot. 2) The model contains optional rules that could ensure proper sequencing of process steps. 3) I don't expect ebXML to produce software. 4) I do expect the BP model to influence software companies. Am I making any sense? It is a logical outlook that BP-XMI in appropriate "pieces" (as Bob puts it) will indeed play a role in implementations from software companies, even if a BP-XMI formal specification does not exist in ebXML. Also, not only an alignment with Core Components is likely, but logically with TRP. An instance of the BP would define an instance of the TRP TSLA, which will configure an instance of the ebXML-aware Transport for enforcing the BP process steps. The system-level architecture is not completely clear, but this is a likely outcome that is workable. Scott Hinkelman Senior Software Engineer, SWG IBM Austin 512-823-8097 (TL 793-8097) (Cell: 512-940-0519) srh@us.ibm.com, Fax: 512-838-1074 Bob Haugen @lists.oasis-open.org on 06/22/2000 02:50:45 PM Sent by: owner-ebxml-awareness@lists.oasis-open.org To: "'William J. Kammerer'" cc: "'ebXML Awareness Team'" Subject: RE: Suggestion for ebXML Knowledge Dissemination William Kammerer wrote: >the ebXML Business Process Metamodel on Page 4 of the BP >First Draft is out of this world; I would call it spaghetti-code. I agree, it is too complex. The next revision (due next week) will not be any better. I'll raise an issue from your suggestions to find a way to simplify for the rev after that. [good ideas snipped but filed for future reference] >The Use Cases were easier to understand Good. At least we're moving in the right direction. (Those were done much later than the first big diagram.) >I'll trust BP >that the collaboration diagrams somehow map onto the metamodel; I'm not >going to double-check them. They had a few listed problems; the next rev should map much closer to 100%. >But when we're all done with this, what do we expect out of the Business >Process model? Is this somehow going to be put into XMI or something >that ebXML compliant software can read to control the processes? I.e., >the process would ensure that the authorization for raw materials, >fabrication and shipment occur seriatim (taking the Scheduling Use case >for example). A lot of the usage remains to be determined. The only official statements are those included in the TechSpec Scenarios, in which the BP model will be incorporated in repositories. We also expect the core components and BP model to align with each other, although that will be a two-way street. Informally, I could say: 1) The BP model is not all mandatory; that is, it is designed to be used in pieces, so that for example simple one-off purchase orders would use a little, while contract procurement might use a lot. 2) The model contains optional rules that could ensure proper sequencing of process steps. 3) I don't expect ebXML to produce software. 4) I do expect the BP model to influence software companies. Am I making any sense? -Bob Haugen ======================================================================= = This is ebxml-awareness, the general mailing list for the ebXML = = Marketing and Awareness project team. 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