RE: Substitution (was) my communication with CPP team

[Martin W Sachs <mwsachs@us.ibm.com>]

Karsten,

I agree that an important question is what is being altered.   Giving
values to parameters in the BPSS instance document is one thing.
Wholesales substititution of pieces of the collaboration protocol is a
different matter and will lead to all sorts of confusion when the BPSS
instance document doesn't describe the actual collaboration protocol.  I
believe that changes of that magnitude should result in a new BPSS document
that reflects reality.

Regards,
Marty

*************************************************************************************

Martin W. Sachs
IBM T. J. Watson Research Center
P. O. B. 704
Yorktown Hts, NY 10598
914-784-7287;  IBM tie line 863-7287
Notes address:  Martin W Sachs/Watson/IBM
Internet address:  mwsachs @ us.ibm.com
*************************************************************************************



Karsten Riemer <Karsten.Riemer@sun.com> on 07/03/2001 12:04:40 PM

Please respond to Karsten Riemer <Karsten.Riemer@sun.com>

To:   Tony Weida <TonyW@EDIFECS.COM>
cc:   James Bryce Clark <jamie.clark@mmiec.com>, Karsten Riemer
      <Karsten.Riemer@sun.com>, ebxml-bp@lists.ebxml.org,
      ebxml-cppa@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject:  RE: Substitution (was) my communication with CPP team


Hi Tony,
I believe XSLT would work just fine. It is in fact a generic substitution
and
alteration mechanism for XML. The substitution mechanism in BPSS (added at
Vienna) works on the same principle as XSLT, but is intended to work on two
specific aspects of a BPSS: The document type, and the transaction
parameters
(such as timeouts and security parameters). So we are looking at a totally
generic, free-for all, substitution mechanism (XSLT), and a constrained
one.
Perhaps the answer lies somewhere in between. One question to consider is
how
much can you substitute/alter before you are in effect creating a new
process,
rather than a parameterized instance of the standard process. I look
forward
to discussing this at the CPP face-to-face.

Note that I am making these comments as a CPP team member, not as an
official
spokesman for the BP team.

thanks,
-karsten


>I've previously suggested using XSLT to specify (and document) how the
>parties to a CPA have agreed to customize an external BP for the purposes
of
>their specific agreement, while preserving the link to the original
version.
>XML DSIG provides mechanisms for the parties to sign over the (transformed
>version of the) BP in the process of signing the CPA.  The ebXML Trading
>Partners team agreed to table this topic due to lack of time for working
>through the details before the final meeting in Vienna.  I certainly hope
to
>pursue this topic in the context of the new OASIS Collaboration Protocol
>Profile and Agreement TC.
>
>Cheers,
>Tony Weida
>Edifecs
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: James Bryce Clark [mailto:jamie.clark@mmiec.com]
>> Sent: Monday, July 02, 2001 6:31 PM
>> To: Karsten Riemer
>> Cc: ebxml-bp@lists.ebxml.org; dmoberg@cyclonecommerce.com;
>> mwsachs@us.ibm.com
>> Subject: Substitution (was) my communication with CPP team
>>
>>
>> At 12:42 PM 6/29/01, you wrote:
>>
>> >1. Use of the 'substitution' capability. What I mean by that
>> is that a CPA
>> >could 'substitute' parts of a BP by explicit agreement by
>> the two parties.
>> >They need a way to express such a substitution.
>>
>> My thanks to Karsten for pointing this issue out.  A similar
>> issue came up,
>> briefly, in March or April in Marty Sachs' old "TPA" group.
>> I think this
>> is a hugely important issue -- the extent to which trading
>> partners and
>> perhaps third parties can customize, or conversely rely
>> (unseen) on the
>> business process integrity, of a given defined transaction,
>> and the extent
>> to which it must be reflected or picked up somehow in
>> artifacts derived
>> from the CPA.
>>
>> I plan to follow this and probably kibitz loudly in the OASIS CPPA
>> group.  It belongs there, not here, although it is a strong
>> dependency of
>> BP upon the CPA.  Just wanted to mention it "here" (BP) by way of FYI.
>>
>> ,  Pe mgI mention it here only because there nmay be other BP
>> people who d
>> can CPPA c imilar question I thikn it
>>
>>
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