Re: [Fwd: Example Scenarios Used Within the Aerospace Industry]

[christopher ferris <chris.ferris@east.sun.com>]

Abid,

Please see below.

Cheers,

Chris

Abid Farooqui wrote:
> 
> Dear James,
> So let me understand this correctly.
> As far as I can make out from your kind answers below what seems to be the case is
> that :
> 1) ebXML can be used as a messaging mechanism to deliver traditional EDI to
> traditional EDI engines

Yes, it can.

> 2) Now you mention 2 problems:
> "First, it must correctly interpret the element that identifies the schema
> (such as X12) in which the payload documents are encoded, so it can send
> that data stream to something that can interpret it.  (Like your EDI engine.)"
> My question to that is : Doesn't ebXML messaging has in it some indicator that
> describes what kind of data it is and if not ... why?

Yes, it does. This is the purpose of the Manifest. Of course, there are other
elements of the ebXML SOAP extension headers that the message service can
use for purposes of internal dispatching of messages to the appropriate handler
application. These include the CPAId, Service and Action elements. The CPAId
can be used to identify a CPA (whether a true CPA document or an implied or
logical "agreement" between the parties that specifies what messages will
be exchanged, etc.). The Service and Action elements can be used for internal
dispatching as well. Again, ebXML MSH places no specific constraints on
how these elements are (or are not) used in any given implementation.

> 
> "Second, it must correctly apply the ebXML business signals so that it can
> read and process the simple business-rule context of that payload -- Is
> this a response?  A request?  To what?  Is it logically dependent on or
> conditioned on another message already received, or to come?  Is this
> binding?  Does it conform to whatever rules for acknowledgement, encryption
> or signature are invoked?"

The business signals referred to here are those that are defined in terms
of an ebXML business process. The business signals are low-level messages
that parties exchange to signify things such as:
	- I've received your message
	- I've pre-processed your message and it passed the preliminary
	edits
	- ...

The ebXML Business Process Specification Schema specification describes these
in more detail. Business signals may, or may not be necessary. This is clearly
the realm of the "owner" of a business process to determine. Typically, this
would be the purview of a vertical standards body such as OTA, RosettaNet, OAG, etc
or a horizontal standards body such as X12 or EDIFACT, etc.

> Isn't this what an ebXML server would do anyway? I think these are basically
> requirements for an ebXML platform, regardless of EDI payload or any other payload.
> Am I correct?

Basically, yes. 

> 
> Thanks
> Sincerely,
> Abid Farooqui
> 
> James Bryce Clark wrote:
> 
> > At 11:17 AM 6/4/01, you wrote:
> >
> > >Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2001 14:16:14 -0400
> > >From: Abid Farooqui <farooqui@tampabay.rr.com>
> > >Subject: Re: Example Scenarios Used Within the Aerospace Industry
> > >
> > >Isn't it true that ebXML messaging can be used to deliver traditional EDI
> > >payloads as well.
> >
> > Yes indeed.
> >
> > >Probably there has to be ways of delivering that payload to
> > >the EDI mapping engine like DI or GenTran but ebXML messaging could be used as
> > >the transport correct?
> >
> > Once past transport, the receiver's business service interface has, broadly
> > speaking, two problems.
> >
> > First, it must correctly interpret the element that identifies the schema
> > (such as X12) in which the payload documents are encoded, so it can send
> > that data stream to something that can interpret it.  (Like your EDI engine.)
> >
> > Second, it must correctly apply the ebXML business signals so that it can
> > read and process the simple business-rule context of that payload -- Is
> > this a response?  A request?  To what?  Is it logically dependent on or
> > conditioned on another message already received, or to come?  Is this
> > binding?  Does it conform to whatever rules for acknowledgement, encryption
> > or signature are invoked?
> >
> > >I am new to ebXML so feel free to correct me.
> > >I believe that changes from large EDI users to adapt ebXML will be slow
> > >but they
> > >have to be made because there is a very good business case to do that.
> >
> > The ebXML business process group spent a lot of time working closely with
> > the X12, EDIFACT and RosettaNet communities precisely to preserve the
> > upgrade path you describe.
> >
> > Best regards
> >
> > James Bryce Clark
> > McLure Moynihan Inc.
> > 818 597 9475     jamie.clark@mmiec.com