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Subject: RE: [ebxml-dev] ebXML specifications interdendancies

The other reason for using the CPA in its XML form is that it permits using
common deployment tools built for XML CPAs rather than special purpose
tools for your own agreement formats.



Martin W. Sachs
IBM T. J. Watson Research Center
P. O. B. 704
Yorktown Hts, NY 10598
914-784-7287;  IBM tie line 863-7287
Notes address:  Martin W Sachs/Watson/IBM
Internet address:  mwsachs @ us.ibm.com

Dale Moberg <dmoberg@cyclonecommerce.com> on 12/04/2001 03:58:38 PM

To:    "Anarkat, Dipan" <DAnarkat@uc-council.org>,
Subject:    RE: [ebxml-dev] ebXML specifications interdendancies

Some  comments in line.
-----Original Message-----
From: Anarkat, Dipan  [mailto:DAnarkat@uc-council.org]
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001  12:17 PM
To: ebxml-dev@lists.ebxml.org
Subject: [ebxml-dev]  ebXML specifications interdendancies

 "  Hi,
 "      I am trying to assess the functional  interdependancies b/w the
diferent systems in the ebXML stack from an  implementation standpoint,
used in an e-business framework.
 "     As  we know, the ebCPPA spec does specify how a CPA is negotiated
between 2 trading  partners.

DaleMoberg> Negotiation is currently being specified  in the OASIS
ebxml-cppa TC. There was no
normative definition at the CPPA 1.0 level. There was a  lot of information
about how to use CPA templates
or even to compose CPPs to arrive at CPAs, but you were  on your own in
exchanging these documents.

" I also understood from a  couple of vendors that the CPA instance XML has
to be loaded into the internal  database (any form) of the MSH. It really
doesnt matter how the CPA is  negotiated or for that matter even if it is
in XML form.

DaleMoberg> Typically for MSHes that  support CPAs, importing a CPA and
using it to populate the  MSH's
configuration "database" would be an  operation that would be done,
obviously. Just how much of the information  is
actually used might vary. Minimally you  will need to get the URLs of the
other side. You might pull  out
other information.The software might then  need to ask a user for some
other information. You could  pull
out certificates, trust anchors, signature  formats and conventions, and a
whole lot of  stuff.

 " All that is required  is a conclusion representing the CPA that can be
in any format, as long as it  can be loaded into the internal database of
the MSH as provided by the  vendor.

DaleMoberg> If you are talking about  what a MSH could get away with, it
need not
serialize any information it uses in  configuration.
That is, you could use property sheets or  wizards or whatever to
let a user do the configuration. Most  implementations will
have this capability unless they are  telepathic. What importing a
CPA allows is drastically reducing what  the user has
to configure, what choices on security  (etc) are forced on users,
how to get certificates loaded, and so on.  The CPA and CPP are
XML schemas used to define ways to  exchange information expressed
in XML that is used for  configuration. They also have signatures  so
that you trust the information, and hooks  to other potentially useful

    "  This means that an ebMS  compliant MSH has also to be compliant with
the ebCPPA.  "

DaleMoberg> It means that an ebMS compliant MSH has  to be configurable as
a ebMS MSH.
Compliance with ebCPPA means that XML inputs or outputs  conform to the
schemas that
have been defined. Since the ebMS is not required to serialize its
configuration information
in any  format, it does not have to conform to the ebCPPA compliance
clause. I think  you
are  trying to find some dependency here, when both groups have been
reasonably  careful
to  explain how to use specifications together and separately. It would be
far more  useful
to  consider what you gain and lose by not using certain ebXML modules
rather than  trying
to see  how little you can get away with. You will have to configure the
software  somehow.
You  can invest in automating the process for a community or you can let
them  struggle
and  set it up themselves (with consultants).

" Also since  the ebCPP and ebCPA instances identify the Business Processes
in  an ebBPSS instance, it means that the ebMS compliant MSH will also have
to  be compliant with the ebBPSS if it has perform the intended function of
being  able to validate and process ebMS TR&P messages . "

DaleMoberg> No. No real use needs to be  made of the information about
Business Processes, even if  there
is a pointer to it. Otherwise, a dummy  BPSS can be set up in 15 minutes or
so if you really want to  make
certain the pointer resolved.I will even  send you one.

   " This means  that the ebMS TR&P cannot be used independantly for TR&P
and forces you  to use ebCPPA and ebBPSS.  "

DaleMoberg> No. If a web page has links on it, does  that mean you cannot
view the page without clicking on the  links?
You are really reaching here to find a dependency, when  you should just be
asking yourself: what is the value  of
using this? Could there be some ROI if we used  this?  And so on. What is
the point ot these questions  really?

 "As such, even though an agreement may not  be required between trading
partners , we still need a bare bones 'void  agreement' .
Is my understanding right, or am I missing a point here !?  "

DaleMoberg> No and  Yes.

Dipan Anarkat
EC Systems Analyst
Uniform Code Council, Inc.
Tel:  (609)-620-4509

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