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Subject: RE: IETF draft on appropriate uses of HTTP

David E. Cleary agreed with David Boreham,

>> > I want to make it very clear that Sun has NOT said that we will support
>> > SOAP. We have said that if it gets endorsed by ebXML, IETF, W3C, or
>> > other established consensus body, then we will support SOAP.
>> Double speak worthy of Microsoft !
>> Decoded, this means that Sun does not want to support SOAP, correct ?
>Imagine if everybody said that they wouldn't support Java until it was
>endoresed by ISO, ECMA, ....

I object to the hype and marketing this past few days in favor of SOAP.
If the ebXML list is going to serve as a medium for these kinds of
marketing messages then it should setup an advocacy list where all
the other vendors and religions can post our opinions too.

Vendors and developers worldwide, especially reputable vendors like
IBM, Sun are not going to get down and wrestle in the mud by criticising
Microsoft or SOAP.  Following is my opinion.

The problem with SOAP is that it was designed and developed at Microsoft,
over an extended period in which the implications of every aspect of SOAP
were carefully considered by Microsoft in its ongoing development of
XML platforms such as MSIE5 and BizTalk server.  This fairly well ensures
the following:

 1.  whatever capabilities exist in Microsoft platforms, SOAP will support
     them marvelously.

 2.  whatever features that could have exist within SOAP, which might have
     similarly maximized the efficiency or fit for other vendors platforms,
     are not necessarily present, and I am being polite, here.

 3.  whatever features exist in SOAP, Microsoft's numerous, wellpaid
     are already up to speed, have a 1 year head start, and developing
     applications with them.

Microsoft already has overwhelming economic power in the marketplace.
Why would any vendor want to get involved with SOAP?  and go directly into
competition with Microsoft?

Other technologies and other vendors and participants are fully capable
of providing solutions without SOAP.  Similarly, if ebXML adopts SOAP, the
result would be a relative weakening of other participants intellectual
contributions.   You can't have it both ways.  If you rollout solutions
that run on Microsoft platforms better, sooner, faster, then ebXML will
not be a level playing field for other vendors and they will not invest
money and mindshare into it.

Now, Dick Brooks has said a couple of times, "I believe the ebXML MR&T group
needs to take a serious look at SOAP to determine if there is potential
overlap and/or synergy." and posted comments by Developer Division at
Microsoft, etc.

Bob Salita said, april 28th re Chicago SOAP BOF meeting,

"The meeting was called because Kent Sharkey, Technical Evangelist at
Microsoft, asked to make a presentation about SOAP. We hoped to
receive some software bits although this was not the case.

Prior to his arrival, we polled our group's opinions. 92% felt the
proposed breakup of Microsoft into two parts (OS vs. Office) was a
really bad idea. 92% felt Microsoft's appeal would prevail thus
gutting Judge Jackson's decision."

No SOAP.  Make it plain XML.

Todd Boyle Kirkland WA   www.gldialtone.com

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