RE: RE: CNET.com - News - Enterprise Computing - Microsoft,IB

[James McCarthy <jamesm@webxi.com>]

Mark,

I know this group has put in a lot of work in deciding on MIME as the outer
wrapper and I agree with that decision (although I was hesitant at first). I
do believe we will have to work with multiple outer wrappers and I was
suggesting that SOAP could be an optional outer wrapper not a replacement
for MIME in the ebXML spec. As I pointed out, this is exactly what MS did
with BizTalk 2.0. This would allow the ebXML group to say that they work
with SOAP  as well (a good public relations move) and to specify the
limitations of using SOAP.

There are many cases not to use SOAP as the outer wrapper as was pointed out
several times in the past when the subject of a pure XML solution came up. I
believe there is and will always be a need to carry binary (non-XML) data in
its native form. This alone is a good reason not to use SOAP.

In my original post to this list I was not looking to re-ignite the pure XML
argument again only to suggest that we offer an optional outer wrapper. I
believe it would be more of a public relations move rather than a technical
achievement.

We might want to release a technical recommendation document for using SOAP
as the outer wrapper rather than a formal specification. This way we do not
fully endorse SOAP but if it must be used (which it will any way) we have
released a recommendation on how it should be used with ebXML. This was all
I was originally suggesting. I would even volunteer to produce the document
if requested.

Jim McCarthy
CTO, WebXi, Inc.
http://www.webxi.com/


-----Original Message-----
From: Mark CRAWFORD [mailto:mcrawfor@mail.lmi.org]
Sent: Monday, August 07, 2000 10:03 AM
To: jamesm@webxi.com; ebxml-transport@lists.ebxml.org
Subject: Re:RE: CNET.com - News - Enterprise Computing - Microsoft,IB


James McCarthy wrote -

>I believe it would be trivial to put the ebXML headers in the >SOAP header
and
the payload in a SOAP body. The only thing >this would really require would
be
to define two namespaces, >one for the ebXML headers and one by the
application
for its >payload and then use the SOAP wrapper instead of MIME.

What business case, remembering that the purpose of ebXML is to facilitate
global trade and support the needs of SME's, can be made to not just simply
adopt SOAP.  I understand the hard work that has gone into developing the
ebXML
solution, but if SOAP can provide a basic solution that meets the needs of
SME's
and facilitates global trade, and a solution that will be fully
implementable by
all applications that adopt SOAP, then it seems that SOAP should be adopted
as
the solution.


    Mark
Mark Crawford
Research Fellow
______
LMI Logistics Management Institute
2000 Corporate Ridge, McLean, VA 22102-7805
(703) 917-7177   Fax (703) 917-7518
mcrawfor@lmi.org
http://www.lmi.org
"Opportunity is what you make of it"



____________________Reply Separator____________________
Subject:    RE: CNET.com - News - Enterprise Computing - Microsoft,IBM s
Author: James McCarthy <jamesm@webxi.com>
Date:       8/5/00 10:38 AM

Dick,

I have looked at the SOAP 1.1 spec and have implemented a parser for it. The
specification is so broad except for the specification of data types.

I believe it would be trivial to put the ebXML headers in the SOAP header
and the payload in a SOAP body. The only thing this would really require
would be to define two namespaces, one for the ebXML headers and one by the
application for its payload and then use the SOAP wrapper instead of MIME.

A simple specification document like the MIME wrapper spec should take care
of the whole argument. Then we would have "ebXML over SOAP".

I know this would not meet some of the ebXML requirements (mostly that the
headers and payload are separate documents). But it would clarify the
purpose of SOAP and our position in regards to SOAP.

What do you think?

Jim McCarthy
WebXi, Inc.
http://www.webxi.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Dick Brooks [mailto:dick@8760.com]
Sent: Friday, August 04, 2000 6:45 PM
To: Ebxml
Subject: CNET.com - News - Enterprise Computing - Microsoft,IBM set
aside rivalry to cr


FYI.... I've had more than one person ask me if the Sun/IBM disagreement
would affect ebXML's chances...

This press release isn't helping matters.

Dick