Re: v0.8 Manifest proposal

[Christopher Ferris <chris.ferris@East.Sun.COM>]

Bob,

You are reading too much into what I was proposing.
I'm not suggesting a means of generally conveying
metadata for ebXML. I am proposing a specific
vocabulary for conveying information about the
payload objects sufficient to enable them to be
processed. Since that is technically metadata,
I originally chose that name for the element
which contained this information.

Yeah, I could use RDF assertions, but that seems
to me to be a bit much in this context, don't
you think?

Basically, all I (believe I) need to know to
process the message is:
	- what is it
	- where is it
	- what/where is the schema
	- what version of the schema is it

The first two are (I believe) covered with
the xlink attributes xlink:role and xlink:href.

The second two I have added based upon specific
requirements suggested (off-line) by a couple of
different vertical working groups which have expressed
a need to enable a receiving system to determine
if a message can be processed (based upon whether 
the version of the content model is consistent
with what they were expecting) withoput actually
processing/parsing the payload object.

Granted, I could simply create two additional
attributes for the DocumentReference element
for this purpose, but I felt that separating
out this information into its own child element
of DocumentReference would actually be more 
useful/suitable.

In originally choosing Metadata as the name for that
element, I was really just grasping for some
name which reflected the nature of these attributes.
Matt suggested that an element named Schema
be used instead since the attributes I used
are only a reflection of specific characteristics
of the schema of the object referenced.

Cheers,

Chris

"Miller, Robert (GXS)" wrote:
> 
> Chris,
> 
> My impression is that the intent of the element was/is to convey metadata,
> but that ebXML hasn't yet settled on how to represent metadata, so currenly
> all the element is able to convey is schema.  That's a different view than
> one that says all it will ever convey is schema.
> 
> Cheers,
>          Bob
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Christopher Ferris - XTC Advanced Development
> [mailto:chris.ferris@east.sun.com]
> Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2000 1:48 PM
> To: Miller, Robert (GXS)
> Cc: ebxml transport
> Subject: Re: v0.8 Manifest proposal
> 
> Bob,
> 
> I didn't mean to imply that Schema is a language
> for expressing metadata. Rather, that the only "metadata"
> described in the proposed Metadata element was related
> to the schema (or DTD) which defined the document
> in the payload.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Chris
> 
> "Miller, Robert (GXS)" wrote:
> >
> > Hi All,
> >
> > Chris writes:
> >   I can see the merits of changing the subordinate element
> >   name of Metadata to Schema since that's currently all that
> >   is being cited w/r/t metadata.
> >
> > XML Schema is a language for constraining the valid syntax of XML document
> > instances claiming conformance to the schema.  It is not a language for
> > expressing metadata.
> >
> > The W3C Resource Description Framework (RDF) Rceommendation is an example
> of
> > a language for expressing metadata.  The W3C Resource Description
> Framework
> > Schema Candidate Recommendation provides assistance in the interpretation
> of
> > metadata by providing well known constructs for represnting relationships
> > (e.g., class/subclass)
> >
> > Please do not change the subordinate element name Metadata to Schema.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >          Bob Miller
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Christopher Ferris - XTC Advanced Development
> > [mailto:chris.ferris@east.sun.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2000 11:45 AM
> > To: ebxml transport
> > Subject: Re: v0.8 Manifest proposal
> >
> > Matt,
> >
> > Thanks for the comments. As to unnecessarily munging
> > the syntax, I'm not certain that I agree. It isn't
> > clear to me that we need to be concerned with "human"
> > readable syntax if that's what you are after.
> >
> > Again, my rationale for proposing xlink syntax
> > is that it is more closely aligned with the direction
> > expressed by the SOAP with Attachments specification
> > and thus offers us a better opportunity down the road for
> > convergence with the likes of XP.
> >
> > I can see the merits of changing the subordinate element
> > name of Metadata to Schema since that's currently all that
> > is being cited w/r/t metadata.
> >
> > e.g.
> >
> > <Manifest xmlns:xlink="http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink">
> >         <DocumentReference xlink:type="simple"
> >                 xlink:role="http://www.ebxml.org/gci/purchaseOrder"
> >                 xlink:href="cid:...">
> >                 <Schema version="1.0"
> >
> > href="http://www.ebxml.org/gci/OrderV0.1072400.dtd"/>
> >         </DocumentReference>
> > </Manifest>
> >
> > As to my second use case using xpath (or xpointer) the
> > usefulness is that you can explicitly identify a node
> > in the CPA (Collaboration Protocol Agreement, which is
> > derivative of TPA from tpaML) which corresponds to the
> > "step/sequence" within a business process for which the
> > message is intended.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Chris
> 
> --
>                                Christopher Ferris
>     _/_/_/_/ _/    _/ _/    _/ Sr Staff Engineer - XTC Advanced Development
>    _/       _/    _/ _/_/  _/  Phone: 781-442-3063 or x23063
>   _/_/_/_/ _/    _/ _/ _/ _/   Email: chris.ferris@East.Sun.COM
>        _/ _/    _/ _/  _/_/    Sun Microsystems,  Mailstop: UBUR03-313
> _/_/_/_/  _/_/_/  _/    _/     1 Network Drive Burlington, MA 01803-0903

-- 
                               Christopher Ferris
    _/_/_/_/ _/    _/ _/    _/ Sr Staff Engineer - XTC Advanced Development 
   _/       _/    _/ _/_/  _/  Phone: 781-442-3063 or x23063      
  _/_/_/_/ _/    _/ _/ _/ _/   Email: chris.ferris@East.Sun.COM
       _/ _/    _/ _/  _/_/    Sun Microsystems,  Mailstop: UBUR03-313
_/_/_/_/  _/_/_/  _/    _/     1 Network Drive Burlington, MA 01803-0903