RE: Manifest Element??

[Ralph Berwanger <rberwanger@bTrade.com>]

-----Original Message-----
From: Burdett, David [mailto:david.burdett@commerceone.com]
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 2:11 AM
To: ebxml-transport@lists.ebxml.org
Subject: RE: Manifest Element??


David,
	I am sorry, but I am in a very BlackAndWhite mood.  
	(Point 1) The spec states that the manifest MUST be present if a
payload is included.  If the manifest is not present and a payload is
detected, report an error back to the sending MSH.  It should not have
created the message--poor implementation.  I suggest that the MSH
implementation will cache the invalid message at the receiving side for
disposition.  My experience tells me that the receiving end will
probably want to accept the payload--after all, I have been told by
customers that they want to accept message even when the digital
signature on the document fails validation.
	(Point 2) More BlackAndWhite, return an error!  This one seems
to require little thought.
	(Point 3) I thought that the discussion during the
teleconference was that we could not (were not willing) to restrict the
content of the SOAP Body so that we would remain SOAP complaint.  Rik
was pushing for a position that stated the payload MUST be in an
attachment, others disagreed.

Ralph Berwanger
-------------------------------------------  

A few additional thoughts on the manifest errors ...

1. What should the MSH do if there is no manifest yet there is a payload
(and vice versa): a) ignore it, b) report a "warning" or c) report an
"error"
2. What do the MSH do if the manfiest is present but is inconsistent
with
the payload entries again: a) ignore it, b) report a "warning" or c)
report
an "error"

Currently the spec does not define the behavior ...

Another thought is that with SOAP you could have "payloads" within the
SOAP
body. Do we allow this, and if we do should we point to it from the
manifest.

Thoughts?

David

-----Original Message-----
From: Rik Drummond [mailto:rvd2@worldnet.att.net]
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 2:20 PM
To: ebxml-transport@lists.ebxml.org
Subject: RE: Manifest Element??


the question is: which is the most KISS'able?  rik

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Joya [mailto:mike.joya@xmlglobal.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 3:51 PM
To: ebxml-transport@lists.ebxml.org
Subject: Re: Manifest Element??


  In answer to Robert Fox's post regarding the Manifest element, Doug
Bunting
writes, "It requires receivers to support both expressions of that
semantic."
He goes on to say that "some receivers could attempt to differentiate
leaving
out the Manifest element from an empty Manifest, thereby losing
interoperability with senders that use those two things
interchangeably."

  The two different semantics are not in such conflict. Sure, there's a
difference between the absence of a Manifest element and an empty one.
Take
the
"Table of Contents" approach (as expressed in my previous email.) The
MSH is
really concerned with the inner Reference elements that correspond to
the
MIME payload envelopes. The Manifest, empty or absent, does not affect
how
many
References are available. A robust implementation should be tolerant of
both
cases.

  Whether this is an ideal circumstance is open for debate. What purpose
requires a functional differentiation between an absent Manifest and an
empty
one? I cannot envision one.

  On a side note, I think the "POC request for fewer optional
elements" regarded the StatusData and ApplicationHeaders elements, but
that's a
separate discussion altogether.




--
// Michael Joya
// XML Global Research and Development
// 1818 Cornwall Ave. Suite 9
// Vancouver, Canada
// 604-717-1100x230




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