RE: Digital Envelope: Food for thought by the next generation

["Miller, Robert (GXS)" <Robert.Miller@gxs.ge.com>]

I concur with Marty's opinion that a message may be signed at either (or
both) levels, application and message handling.
In practice, application level signatures typically serve a different
busines purpose than MSH level signatures.

Cheers,
          Bob Miller

-----Original Message-----
From: Dick Brooks [mailto:dick@8760.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2001 10:12 AM
To: Martin W Sachs
Cc: ebxml-tp@lists.ebxml.org; ebxml-transport@lists.ebxml.org; Maryann
Hondo
Subject: RE: Digital Envelope: Food for thought by the next generation


Marty,

> I guess a parallel question is who does the signing.  If you tell me that
> signing is done above the message service handler, then I guess I could
> agree that message-level encryption is also above the MSH.

Good question. IMO, it's possible for a layer above the MSH to sign/encrypt
a payload document before it reaches the MSH. I also believe an MSH can sign
a message (header and payload) using XML DSIG.

Dick Brooks
Group 8760
110 12th Street North
Birmingham, AL 35203
dick@8760.com
205-250-8053
Fax: 205-250-8057
http://www.8760.com/

InsideAgent - Empowering e-commerce solutions

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Martin W Sachs [mailto:mwsachs@us.ibm.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 12:47 PM
> To: Dick Brooks
> Cc: ebxml-tp@lists.ebxml.org; ebxml-transport@lists.ebxml.org; Maryann
> Hondo
> Subject: RE: Digital Envelope: Food for thought by the next generation
>
>
>
> Dick,
>
> It looks like you and I are the only ones around these days.  I guess
> everyone else is worn out from Vienna :-)
>
> You may have the right answer but I am not sure.  Digital
> Envelope is not a
> packaging function as I understand packaging.  It is an RSA encryption
> procedure.  The message is encrypted by symmetric encryption and
> the secret
> keys are exchanged by public-key encryption.
>
> I guess a parallel question is who does the signing.  If you tell me that
> signing is done above the message service handler, then I guess I could
> agree that message-level encryption is also above the MSH.
>
>
> Regards,
> Marty
>
>
>
> ******************************************************************
> *******************
>
> Martin W. Sachs
> IBM T. J. Watson Research Center
> P. O. B. 704
> Yorktown Hts, NY 10598
> 914-784-7287;  IBM tie line 863-7287
> Notes address:  Martin W Sachs/Watson/IBM
> Internet address:  mwsachs @ us.ibm.com
> ******************************************************************
> *******************
>
>
>
> Dick Brooks <dick@8760.com> on 05/16/2001 12:50:14 PM
>
> Please respond to dick@8760.com
>
> To:   Martin W Sachs/Watson/IBM@IBMUS, ebxml-tp@lists.ebxml.org,
>       ebxml-transport@lists.ebxml.org
> cc:   Maryann Hondo/Austin/IBM@IBMUS
> Subject:  RE: Digital Envelope:  Food for thought by the next generation
>
>
>
> Marty,
>
> It appears to me the Digital Envelope element is used to describe payload
> packaging. If
> my understanding is correct then I don't believe the Message Service (MS)
> needs to know about the
> Digital Envelope. It's whatever layer above the MS that is responsible for
> packaging the
> payload that needs this information.
>
> The MS spec assumes that a payload item is "packaged" for
> transport and the
> MS is only responsible
> for "inserting" the payload into the ebXML Message as a MIME body
> part.  At
> least that is my understanding.
>
>
> Dick Brooks
> Group 8760
> 110 12th Street North
> Birmingham, AL 35203
> dick@8760.com
> 205-250-8053
> Fax: 205-250-8057
> http://www.8760.com/
>
> InsideAgent - Empowering e-commerce solutions
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Martin W Sachs [mailto:mwsachs@us.ibm.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 9:17 AM
> > To: ebxml-tp@lists.ebxml.org; ebxml-transport@lists.ebxml.org
> > Cc: Maryann Hondo
> > Subject: Digital Envelope: Food for thought by the next generation
> >
> >
> > List-Unsubscribe:
> >  <mailto:ebxml-transport-request@lists.ebxml.org?body=unsubscribe>
> > List-Archive: <http://lists.ebxml.org/archives/ebxml-transport>
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> >
> > It was just pointed out to me by an IBM colleague that while the CPP/CPA
> > specification includes a Digital Envelope element, the Message Service
> > Specification says nothing about it.  To me, this looks like a TRP-TP
> > coordination item that fell through the cracks and should resurface in
> the
> > next life.
> >
> > Does anyone know if Digital Envelope is usable in spite of the
> > fact that it
> > isn't explicitly mentioned in the Message Service Specification?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Marty
> >
> > ******************************************************************
> > *******************
> >
> > Martin W. Sachs
> > IBM T. J. Watson Research Center
> > P. O. B. 704
> > Yorktown Hts, NY 10598
> > 914-784-7287;  IBM tie line 863-7287
> > Notes address:  Martin W Sachs/Watson/IBM
> > Internet address:  mwsachs @ us.ibm.com
> > ******************************************************************
> > *******************
> >
> >
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