RE: [seattle-xml] March 5, 2001 Seattle XML agenda: BPMI

[Larissa Leybovich <lleybovich@vitria.com>]

FYI,

More info on BPMI.  Our correspondence started after Ismael's presentation
at the OAG meeting last week.

-----Original Message-----
From: 	Ismael Ghalimi [mailto:ghalimi@intalio.com] 
Sent:	Monday, February 26, 2001 5:18 PM
To:	Larissa Leybovich
Subject:	BPML and ebXML

Dear Larissa:
After a more in-depth reviewing of the documents you sent me, I am still
struggling to find the XML Schema that you mentioned during our presentation
(the one developed by ebXML that is supposed to be similar to the one we
have developed). Can you point me out to this document?
In the meantime, I do believe that you might be interested by the attached
document which provides a very preliminary introduction to the relationship
between BPML and ebXML. This is a very first draft that should not be
circulated, but the analogy to Java and CORBA might help you better
understand why BPML is needed alongside ebXML.
Best regards
Ismael

-----Original Message-----
From: 	Larissa Leybovich  
Sent:	Monday, February 26, 2001 7:46 AM
To:	'Karsten Riemer'; 'Paul R. Levine'; 'Hayes, Brian'
Cc:	Marcia L. McLure Ph. D. (E-mail)
Subject:	FW: About ebXML and BPMI

Hi All,
Here is the correspondence that I had with Ismael Ghalimi from BPMI (one of
the founders of this consortium).  He made a presentation at the OAG meeting
last week about BPMI and I thought that there were a few overlaps between
our organizations.  Do you agree with his assessment of the differences
between the ebXML-BP and BPMI charters?
Larissa Leybovich
Vitria Technology
Supply Chain Solutions
Irvine         949-857-4233
Cell            949-836-2545
Sunnyvale  408-212-2716
-----Original Message-----
From:	Ismael Ghalimi [mailto:ghalimi@intalio.com] 
Sent:	Sunday, February 25, 2001 8:46 AM
To:	Larissa Leybovich
Subject:	RE: About ebXML

Dear Larissa:
Thanks a lot for this information. This very much confirms our initial
understanding of ebXML's work with respect to business process management.
ebXML defines a coordination model, while BPML defines an execution model.
The boundary that separates the two is a moving target, open to different
interpretations. While ebXML will add more and more semantics to its
metamodel, ebXML's coordination model will look closer to BPML's execution
model. Nevertheless, I do think that the two approaches are required and
will nicely complement each others.
Best regards
Ismael

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Larissa Leybovich [mailto:lleybovich@vitria.com]
> Sent:	Friday, February 23, 2001 5:59 PM
> To:	'Ismael Ghalimi'
> Subject:	RE: About ebXML
>
>
> Ismail,
>
> Here is the link to the ebXML BP_CC deliverables.  There is a lot of
> information that you can find over there, including the
> meta-model document.
>
> http://www.ebxml.org/project_teams/jdt/deliverables.html
>
> Here is the link to the UN/CEFACT TMWG N090 document which has
> the modeling
> methodology.  There was a TMWG meeting this week where they'd revised this
> doc again, but changes are not posted as of yet.
>
> The URL for N090 is http://www.ebxml.org/project_teams/jdt/
>
> I suggest for you to get on the servlist of the ebXML_BP group that is
> posted on their site.
> Thank you for the presentations.
>
> Larissa Leybovich
> Vitria Technology
> Supply Chain Solutions
> Irvine         949-857-4233
> Cell            949-836-2545
> Sunnyvale  408-212-2716
>
>  -----Original Message-----
> From:	Ismael Ghalimi [mailto:ghalimi@intalio.com]
> Sent:	Friday, February 23, 2001 5:18 PM
> To:	Larissa Leybovich
> Subject:	About ebXML
>
> Dear Larissa:
>
> Can you send me a copy of the documents related to ebXML we
> should review in
> order to better understand possible overlaps between our
> respective efforts?
>
> Thanks.
>
> ismael
>
> ____________________________________________________________
>
> Ismael Ghalimi                           ghalimi@intalio.com
> CEO                                   http://www.intalio.com
> Intalio, Inc.                              Tel: 650-345-2777
> The Business Process Management Company    Fax: 603-719-9409


 -----Original Message-----
From: 	Welsh, David [mailto:David.Welsh@nordstrom.com] 
Sent:	Monday, February 19, 2001 12:18 PM
To:	'Ken Levy'; tboyle@rosehill.net; Seattle XML SIG
Cc:	ebxml-bp@lists.ebxml.org
Subject:	RE: [seattle-xml] March 5, 2001 Seattle XML agenda: BPMI

Hi Todd,
1. I gathered from their website that "The first draft of BPML will be made
available to the public on March 8, 2001.", so I guess it's kinda hard to
say anything definite @ BPMI till then; ... and I'm sure someone will have a
comment or two !

2. as for Ismael Ghalimi, the CEO of Intalio said, "...the mere existence of
BPMI.org will have a strong impact on ebXML: it will force ebXML to decide
wether they should focus on Collaborative Business Processes or compete
directly with BPMI.org. " Well my impression is ebXML has taken the step of
Collaborative Business Processes. 

3. last Friday, the ebXML closing plenary formally approved the ebXML
Technical Architecture Document which includes words to the effect that if
you are (collaborative) business process modeling for ebXML, then you are to
use the TMWG N90 UMM as your original source.

4. I personally enjoyed Cory Casanave's lunch & learn last week @ ebXML on
his/Kartsen Riemer's work on the OMG front w.r.t. their proposal on EDOC and
Business Service Integration for Enterprise Collaboration Architectures.
http://cgi.omg.org/cgi-bin/doc?ad/99-10-20

Dave




> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ken Levy [mailto:ken_levy@csi.com]
> Sent: Monday, February 19, 2001 11:24 AM
> To: tboyle@rosehill.net; Seattle XML SIG
> Cc: ebxml-bp@lists.ebxml.org
> Subject: Re: [seattle-xml] March 5, 2001 Seattle XML agenda: BPMI
> 
> 
> XMLFund is also an investor in XMLGlobal, host of last weeks 
> ebXML conference.  Part of the reason you should attend the March 5th
> meeting on BPMI (since you are interested in ebXML) is to 
> find out how BPMI and ebXML differ and how they complement each other.
> But lets not make a thread on this for the alias, just reply 
> directly if you want/need to, thanks.  Remember a few months 
> back I set
> up Simon Nicholson of Sun to speak on ebXML, and Duane 
> Nickull spoke before that.  I think this summer is a good 
> time frame to have
> another topic on ebXML at Seattle XML SIG, this time focused 
> around real solutions/products based on ebXML.
> 
> Ken Levy
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Todd Boyle" <tboyle@rosehill.net>
> To: "Ken Levy" <ken_levy@csi.com>; "Seattle XML SIG" 
> <seattle-xml@yahoogroups.com>
> Cc: <ebxml-bp@lists.ebxml.org>
> Sent: Monday, February 19, 2001 11:21 AM
> Subject: [seattle-xml] March 5, 2001 Seattle XML agenda: BPMI
> 
> 
> 
> Jeepers, now BPMI is doing B2B!  :-)
> 
> > span multiple applications, corporate departments, and business
> > partners, behind the firewall and over the Internet...
> 
> Why not converge with ebXML BP.  What's the problem, that causes
> a need for BPMI to build its own 3rd party BP?
> 
> This will be an interesting program, if true!  Internal integration
> is the whole object model, and method calls for Add, Update, Delete
> and 1000 other fine-grained things.  Dealing with sovereign 
> 3rd parties,
> the verbs are only "request" and "response", especially in new
> business relationships.
> 
> Ismael Ghalimi, the CEO of Intalio said,
> http://lists.ebxml.org/archives/ebxml-stc/200008/msg00046.html
> 
>  "...the mere existence of BPMI.org will have a strong impact on
>   ebXML: it will force ebXML to decide wether they should focus on
>   Collaborative Business Processes or compete directly with 
> BPMI.org. "
> 
> It is probably a reasonable thing to point out that your company,
> XMLFund, is sponsor of Seattle XML SIG's website and also a
> related party in Intalio.  I hope it doesn't undermine the ebXML,
> http://peryourrequest.com/cimworld/news/N757.htm
> http://seattlexml.org/
> http://lists.ebxml.org/ob/htsearch?config=lists_ebxml_org&rest
> rict=&method=a
> nd&sort=score&words=bpmi
> 
> Hope we're still friends!
> Todd
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ken Levy [mailto:ken_levy@csi.com]
> > Sent: Monday, February 19, 2001 9:49 AM
> > To: Seattle XML SIG
> [.....]
> > From http://seattlexml.org
> > March 5, 2001
> > The Business Process Management Initiative (http://www.bpmi.org).
> > The Business Process Management Initiative (BPMI.org) is an
> > independent organization devoted to the development of open
> > specifications for the management of e-Business processes that
> > span multiple applications, corporate departments, and business
> > partners, behind the firewall and over the Internet. BPMI.org
> > complements initiatives such as J2EE and SOAP that enable the
> > convergence of legacy infrastructures toward process-oriented
> > enterprise computing, and initiatives such as ebXML, RosettaNet,
> > BizTalk, WSDL, UDDI, tpaML, and E-Speak that support
> > process-oriented business-to-business collaboration. BPMI.org
> > defines open specifications such as the Business Process Modeling
> > Language (BPML) and the Business Process Query Language (BPQL)
> > that will enable the standards-based management of e-Business
> > processes with forthcoming Business Process Management Systems
> > (BPMS), in much the same way SQL enabled the standards-based
> > management of business data with off-the-shelf Database
> > Management Systems (DBMS). BPMI.org has been initiated by
> > Intalio,Inc. and created in August 2000 by a group of sixteen
> > enterprise software vendors and consulting firms. Membership is
> > open to all companies, non-profit organizations, and individuals.
> > Speaker: Ismael Ghalimi, CEO, Intalio, Inc.  Ismael Ghalimi
> > co-founded Intalio in 1999 after organizing the first ExoLab
> > Session, an Open Source software conference that laid the
> > technical foundations for forthcoming Business Process Management
> > Systems (BPMS). Mr. Ghalimi successfully built a world-class
> > engineering team that is developing the first standards-based
> > BPMS and authored the first definition of this new enterprise
> > software infrastructure in his white paper, "The Process-Managed
> > Enterprise" (July 2000). He created the Business Process
> > Management Initiative (BPMI.org) in August 2000, and was
> > instrumental in the development of this organization into the
> > de-facto standardization body for Business Process Management
> > technologies. Mr. Ghalimi graduated from the Ecole des Mines de
> > Nancy (France) and went on to study parallel & distributed
> > computing at the Ecole Normale Superieure de Lyon (France).
> >
> > XML International: Michael Kaplan of Trigeminal Software Inc.,the
> > author of Internationalization With Visual Basic, will discuss
> > the many issues that are involved with using XML in the global
> > arena. issues with encoding choices, character sets, code pages,
> > the byte order marks that act as encoding signatures, and how to
> > make sure that your use of XML is "internationally friendly" is
> > discussed.
> 
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