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Subject: RE: ebXML in W3C? and OASIS Business Transaction group


Eric,

	Agreed on your thoughts on convergence and single standard. I would modify
it to a set of standards. Also I see your point to put all the efforts under
the ebXML - kind of branding. I would look for leverage rather than
convergence.

	W3C is a mighty fine standard, and of course has a lot of influence. It
comes from being a horizontal standards body providing fundamental
technology directions. We should not turn it into a vertical as well. That
is where IMHO, OASIS comes in the picture - set of vertical standards in
various domains based on the fundamentals from W3C.

	You are right, W3C is an international standard and in almost all the
groups I was in, there are folks from all over the world.

	cheers
  |-----Original Message-----
  |From: Eric Newcomer [mailto:eric.newcomer@iona.com]
  |Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 7:18 AM
  |To: Krishna Sankar; business-transaction@lists.oasis-open.org
  |Subject: RE: ebXML in W3C? and OASIS Business Transaction group
  |
  |
  |It would be good to promote BTP to W3C along with ebXML and RosettaNet
  |requirements to improve market traction and acceptance.  The
  |more we can do to
  |promote convergence on a single set of standards, the better
  |chance we have of
  |widespread adoption of the work.  In my opinion W3C still is the most
  |influential standards setting organization for the Web -- and despite the
  |comments from our colleage at BT, it's not U.S. based but
  |international, with
  |sponsorship in Europe through Inria and similar sponsorship in Japan.
  |
  |Eric
  |
  |-----Original Message-----
  |From: Krishna Sankar [mailto:ksankar@cisco.com]
  |Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 9:39 AM
  |To: business-transaction@lists.oasis-open.org
  |Subject: FW: ebXML in W3C? and OASIS Business Transaction group
  |
  |
  |
  |FYI
  |-----Original Message-----
  |From: Bob Haugen [mailto:linkage@interaccess.com]
  |Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 5:02 AM
  |To: 'Krishna Sankar'; ebxml-bp@lists.ebxml.org
  |Cc: business-transaction@lists.oasis-open.org
  |Subject: RE: ebXML in W3C? and OASIS Business Transaction group
  |
  |
  |The ebXML BPSS and UN/CEFACT UMM also have a
  |transaction protocol and transaction patterns.  It is also
  |the same as the RosettaNet transaction protocol, and
  |the lower-level business signals that enable the transaction
  |protocol are also embedded in the ebXML Message Service.
  |The transaction patterns are declarative.  I suspect the
  |reason even ebXML people don't recognize this is that
  |they have focused on the procedural choreography aspects
  |of the BPSS.
  |
  |So I think there is a possibility of a major conflict, although
  |I have not read the BTP protocol.
  |
  |-Bob Haugen
  |
  |P.S. I probably can't successfully post to the Oasis BT list,
  |so Krishna, maybe you can forward this message.
  |
  |-----Original Message-----
  |From:	Krishna Sankar [SMTP:ksankar@cisco.com]
  |Sent:	Thursday, July 05, 2001 1:15 AM
  |To:	tony.am.fletcher@bt.com; ebxml-bp@lists.ebxml.org
  |Cc:	business-transaction@lists.oasis-open.org
  |Subject:	RE: ebXML in W3C?  and OASIS Business Transaction group
  |
  |Tony/James,
  |
  |	Haven't seen any takers on this. So let me take a first
  |stab at it. Here it
  |goes:
  |
  |	The BTP TC has very focused charter - to develop XML based
  |*protocol* for
  |long lasting transactions across different enterprises over the
  |internet. I
  |don't see any conflict with the BTP and the ebXML Business Processes. In
  |fact, I think the BTP will compliment and complement (:-)) and make it
  |easier for the ebXML business process (in the areas of trx across the
  |internet).
  |
  |	just my 1c (lost the other c in the market :-( in case anybody is
  |wondering)
  |
  |	What are other views ? Also, what exactly is the overlap ?
  |I haven't seen
  |the MOU. Is it available on the web or can someone send me a copy ?
  |
  |cheers & hope you all had a productive July 4th
  |
  |
  |  |-----Original Message-----
  |  |From: tony.am.fletcher@bt.com [mailto:tony.am.fletcher@bt.com]
  |  |Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2001 7:37 AM
  |  |To: ebxml-bp@lists.ebxml.org
  |  |Subject: RE: ebXML in W3C? and OASIS Business Transaction group
  |  |
  |  |
  |  |Dear All,
  |  |
  |  |submit BPSS to W3C?
  |  |
  |  |Seems rather funny to me.  UN/CEFACT is an arm of the United
  |  |Nations and you
  |  |can't get much more international than that, can you?  For all
  |  |the good work
  |  |that it has done, at the end of the day W3C is a US based
  |not-for-profit
  |  |organisation.  I agree however that there is a practical challenge for
  |  |UN/CEFACT to produce output that commands the status at least
  |  |that accorded
  |  |to W3C outputs.  I also agree with a perception mentioned
  |below that the
  |  |W3C, up till now at least, has been seen as tackling the more
  |the syntax
  |  |issues, whereas OASIS and other organisations have tackled the
  |  |application
  |  |of those syntaxes.  The messaging (protocol) area is clearly
  |a grey one
  |  |where W3C may have a role to play.  However, I would have
  |thought that in
  |  |the business process area UN/CEFACT and OASIS should be able to
  |  |stand-alone
  |  |under the banner of ebXML.
  |  |
  |  |Talking of OASIS, I noticed with concern, the post from James
  |Bryce Clark
  |  |that indicated that OASIS has started up its own new TC on business
  |  |transactions.  I would appreciate it if someone would clarify
  |rationale
  |  |behind this, else I hope that OASIS will immediately close
  |this group and
  |  |direct the participants to the ebXML business process group
  |instead.  If
  |  |there is not a clear statement or swift action from OASIS people
  |  |will wonder
  |  |what the value of the MoU is.
  |  |
  |  |Best Regards Tony
  |  |
  |  |A. M. Fletcher
  |  |BTexact Technologies
  |  |    01473 644526     +44 1473 644526      m +44 (0) 7740 739490
  |  |   Fax: +44
  |  |(0) 1473 646291
  |  |   Callisto House /261/pp46 (B81-MH), Adastral Park, Martlesham Heath,
  |  |Ipswich  IP5 3RE    UK
  |  |  tony.am.fletcher@bt.com
  |  |
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  |  |
  |  |-----Original Message-----
  |  |From: Krishna Sankar [mailto:ksankar@cisco.com]
  |  |Sent: 03 July 2001 23:31
  |  |To: ebxml-bp@lists.ebxml.org
  |  |Subject: RE: ebXML in W3C? (was) Re: 2 July BP meeting notes
  |and 16 July
  |  |BP meeting notice
  |  |
  |  |
  |  |Hi all,
  |  |
  |  |	From what I know and hear and talk, W3C is more fundamental in
  |  |nature and
  |  |OASIS is more "application" oriented. XML, Encryption,
  |DSIG,.. all fit in
  |  |the W3C bucket. But things like registry, business process,
  |  |ebXML fit in the
  |  |OASIS bucket. Of course, there are always exceptions.
  |  |
  |  |	IMHO, OASIS should be arbitrator on things like WSFL, registries,
  |  |... And
  |  |like James pointed out, OASIS should establish a
  |relationship/precedence
  |  |work with W3C. And yes, it would be a shame if ebXML ends up as
  |  |preliminary
  |  |work/science projects towards other standards which cannibalize
  |  |and nibble
  |  |ebXML away :-(
  |  |
  |  |	just my 1c
  |  |
  |  |cheers
  |  |
  |  |
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