Re: Registry concern with specifying common vertical structures

[Scott Hinkelman <srh@us.ibm.com>]

Farrukh,
>However, now I think you are saying we should just remove it and leave it
for
the user community to define. In that case RR would have to spec an
extensible
way to add attributes to an otherwise empty PostalAddress class in its
model.
Our Slot mechanism could be used for that.

Correct. I should be able to attend some of the next call.

---> More opinons are appreciated on this topic <--------

Scott Hinkelman, Senior Software Engineer
XML Industry Enablement
IBM e-business Standards Strategy
512-823-8097 (TL 793-8097) (Cell: 512-940-0519)
srh@us.ibm.com, Fax: 512-838-1074



Farrukh Najmi <najmi@east.sun.com> on 03/15/2001 10:56:14 AM

To:   Scott Hinkelman/Austin/IBM@IBMUS
cc:   Farrukh Najmi <Farrukh.Najmi@Sun.COM>, David RR Webber
      <Gnosis_@compuserve.com>, ebxml repository
      <ebxml-regrep@lists.ebxml.org>, Ram Kumar <rkumar@msi.com.au>, Mary
      Kay Blantz <mblantz@netfish.com>, ebxml-core@lists.ebxml.org
Subject:  Re: Registry concern with specifying common vertical structures



Scott,

I am confused. I thought you said you agreed that it is needed (by RR) you
just
dont think RR should define it. I agree with this statement.

However, now I think you are saying we should just remove it and leave it
for
the user community to define. In that case RR would have to spec an
extensible
way to add attributes to an otherwise empty PostalAddress class in its
model.
Our Slot mechanism could be used for that.

In any event lets talk about this in our next meeting so I can understand
better what alternative you are suggesting. BTW I am not subscribed to CC
list
so posts are bouncing.

Scott Hinkelman wrote:

> Farrukh,
> You are fundamentally missing my point.
>
> >I am open to suggestions for improvement or replacement. However, in the
> absence of anything better we have no viable alternative.
>
> "improvement' in my mind is to remove the current structure, not suggest
a
> replcement, and facilitate
> the user community to define it.
>
> Scott Hinkelman, Senior Software Engineer
> XML Industry Enablement
> IBM e-business Standards Strategy
> 512-823-8097 (TL 793-8097) (Cell: 512-940-0519)
> srh@us.ibm.com, Fax: 512-838-1074
>
> Farrukh Najmi <najmi@east.sun.com> on 03/15/2001 10:25:22 AM
>
> To:   Scott Hinkelman/Austin/IBM@IBMUS
> cc:   Farrukh Najmi <Farrukh.Najmi@Sun.COM>, David RR Webber
>       <Gnosis_@compuserve.com>, ebxml repository
>       <ebxml-regrep@lists.ebxml.org>, Ram Kumar <rkumar@msi.com.au>, Mary
>       Kay Blantz <mblantz@netfish.com>, ebxml-core@lists.ebxml.org
> Subject:  Re: Registry concern with specifying common vertical structures
>
> Scott,
>
> I agree that it shoul be someone else defining these things. The
assumption
> we
> had was that CC would define it and we would use it. Since it did not
> happen
> that way we did what we had to.
>
> BTW IMHO, ebXML as a whole shoudl have a unified information model
without
> seams along team boundaries. Since we are rapidly running out of runway
> nothing
> big or global is likely to happen. Each group is under the gun to deliver
> and
> collaboration between teams is getting harder.
>
> I am open to suggestions for improvement or replacement. However, in the
> absence of anything better we have no viable alternative.
>
> Scott Hinkelman wrote:
>
> > Farrukh,
> > And as I mentioned in the meeting, I agree it is needed of course, but
I
> > believe it to be best to allow the utilzation community of an ebXML
> > Registry define that structure. ebXML Registry is not UDDI, and most
> likely
> > there will be many ebXML Registries for specific communities, unlike
> UDDI,
> > and those communities are best served by letting *them* define that
> > structure.
> >
> > Scott Hinkelman, Senior Software Engineer
> > XML Industry Enablement
> > IBM e-business Standards Strategy
> > 512-823-8097 (TL 793-8097) (Cell: 512-940-0519)
> > srh@us.ibm.com, Fax: 512-838-1074
> >
> > Farrukh Najmi <najmi@east.sun.com> on 03/15/2001 09:52:06 AM
> >
> > To:   Scott Hinkelman/Austin/IBM@IBMUS
> > cc:   David RR Webber <Gnosis_@compuserve.com>, ebxml repository
> >       <ebxml-regrep@lists.ebxml.org>, Ram Kumar <rkumar@msi.com.au>,
Mary
> >       Kay Blantz <mblantz@netfish.com>, ebxml-core@lists.ebxml.org
> > Subject:  Re: Registry concern with specifying common vertical
structures
> >
> > Scott,
> >
> > As I mentioned in the meeting yesterday it is common for registry specs
> to
> > define PostalAddress (UDDI defines Address as a type, OASIS defines the
> > attributes of address but not the type, ISO 11179n defines type). I
think
> > we
> > need the type in the model. The attributes could be tweaked.
> >
> > Just my 2cents.
> >
> > Scott Hinkelman wrote:
> >
> > > ISO?, CIQ?, HR-XML?, *?
> > > I still question if PostalAddress should be in scope for formal
> > > specification of the ebXML Registry at all.
> > >
> > > Scott Hinkelman, Senior Software Engineer
> > > XML Industry Enablement
> > > IBM e-business Standards Strategy
> > > 512-823-8097 (TL 793-8097) (Cell: 512-940-0519)
> > > srh@us.ibm.com, Fax: 512-838-1074
> > >
> > > David RR Webber <Gnosis_@compuserve.com>@compuserve.com> on
03/14/2001
> > > 09:28:56 PM
> > >
> > > To:   ebxml repository <ebxml-regrep@lists.ebxml.org>, Ram Kumar
> > >       <rkumar@msi.com.au>, Mary Kay Blantz <mblantz@netfish.com>
> > > cc:
> > > Subject:  RE: Registry concern with specifying common vertical
> structures
> > >
> > > Reply from Ram - looks more promising than
> > > first thought.
> > >
> > > This - and W.Kammerer on ISO seem possibles.
> > >
> > > Mary-Kay - comments?
> > >
> > > DW.
> > >
> > > -------------Forwarded Message-----------------
> > >
> > > From:     "Ram Kumar", INTERNET:rkumar@msi.com.au
> > > To:  , INTERNET:ciq@lists.oasis-open.org
> > >      , INTERNET:ebxml-regrep@lists.ebxml.org
> > >      "'Karl Best'", INTERNET:karl.best@oasis-open.org
> > >      "'David RR Webber'", Gnosis_
> > >
> > > Date:     3/14/2001  9:29 PM
> > >
> > > RE:  RE: Registry concern with specifying common vertical structures
> > >
> > > David
> > >
> > > You are right that the work we are doing on name and address
> > > standards is fairly heavy stuff. But the beauty is that it covers
> > > any application that want to use simple representation of the name
> > > and address to very detailed representation of name and address
> > > elements. For example, if you have a postal address say,
> > >
> > > 23 Archer Avenue East
> > > Boulder, Colorado 12345-8976
> > >
> > > Following are some of the ways that you can represent the above
address
> > > using the XML standard we are working on:
> > >
> > > <address>23 Archer Avenue East
> > >                 Boulder, Colorado 12345-8976
> > > </address>
> > >
> > > OR
> > >
> > > <address>
> > >   <addressline1>23 Archer Avenue East</addressline1>
> > >   <addressline2>Boulder, Colorado 12345-8976</addressline2>
> > > </address>
> > >
> > > OR
> > >
> > > <address>
> > >   <streetnumber>23</streetnumber> <streetname>Archer</streetname>
> > > <streettype>Avenue</streettype>
> > > <streetpostdirection>East</streetpostdirection>
> > > <cityname>Boulder</cityname> <statename>Colorado</statetame>
> > > <postcode>12345</postcode> <extendedpostcode>8976</extendedpostcode>
> > > </address>
> > >
> > > OR
> > >
> > > <address>
> > > <street>23 Archer Avenue East</street>
> > > <city>Boulder</city><state>Colorado<./state>
> > > <postcode>12345-8976</postcode>
> > > </address>
> > >
> > > This is the level of flexibility that we provide in our standard.
> > Moreover,
> > > please note
> > > that our standard work can handle atleast more than 40-50 country
> address
> > > structures.
> > > The point I am trying to make is that it is not compulsary to define
> all
> > > the
> > > postal elements
> > > to represent an address as you state. Most of the elements are
> optional.
> > >
> > > Regards
> > >
> > > Ram
> > > Chair, CIQ TC
> > > OASIS
> > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: David RR Webber [mailto:Gnosis_@compuserve.com]
> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 8:29 AM
> > > > > > To: Karl Best
> > > > > > Cc: ebxml-regrep@lists.ebxml.org; ciq@lists.oasis-open.org
> > > > > > Subject: RE: Registry concern with specifying common vertical
> > > > > > structures
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Message text written by Karl Best
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > RegRep'ers:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There is an OASIS technical committee (Customer Information
> > > > > > Quality, CIQ)
> > > > > > working on this stuff; their work is fairly far along. Is
> > > > > > there a way to
> > > > > > coordinate efforts?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > </karl><
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Karl,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm not sure that's the right answer - but it is an answer.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Being on that TC and looking at the solution they are
> > > > > > moving too - its awfully top heavy just for a registry
> > > > > > entry owner details entry!!!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bit likely signing up for a new telephone line and having
> > > > > > to state your mothers brothers uncles dad's date of birth.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A sub-set of their approach may work , where the DTD
> > > > > > has been skilfully restructured to make a simple highly
> > > > > > level 90:10 possible - with options for greater
> > > > > > granularity for the extended cases.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This is another one of those - with 36hrs in a day we
> > > > > > can get to it things....
> > > > > >
> > > > > > DW.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
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> > 2001
> > > 12:27:54
> > > From: "Ram Kumar" <rkumar@msi.com.au>
> > > To: "'David RR Webber'" <Gnosis_@compuserve.com>,
> > >         "'Karl Best'" <karl.best@oasis-open.org>,
> > >         <ebxml-regrep@lists.ebxml.org>, <ciq@lists.oasis-open.org>
> > > Subject: RE: Registry concern with specifying common vertical
> structures
> > > Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 12:11:54 +1100
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> >
> > --
> > Regards,
> > Farrukh
>
> --
> Regards,
> Farrukh

--
Regards,
Farrukh