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Subject: Re: Throwing the baby out with the bath water

Hello Philip,
Well, I'll await some good specifications then.
As for abandoning Edifact/X.12, this is not what I am suggesting. There's too much work gone into EDI and some of the technology is ok. It's just that there are other parts which are now over twenty years old and that's a long time in computers.
I personly cannot see no reason why Edifact can't coexist within ebXML documents.
For example, why can't an ebXML document have a tagged section to hold legacy edifact or X.12 documents.
For example, within an ebXML we might find a tag <Edifact></Edifact> or <X12></X12> that holds a version of the document in EDI format.
<?ebXML ....>
<X12>UNA|........ UNB|..... </X12>
<Edifact>UNA|........ UNB|..... </Edifact>
So, it's not me that is suggesting throwing the baby out with the bath water.
I'm saying that within ebXML, we should be able to have our cake and it too.
David Lyon
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 6:13 PM
Subject: Throwing the baby out with the bath water

Hello David,
    You will only get specs. which are any good from those who concentrate on business requirements - modeled from the top down . Core components are the result of the top down analysis process. What ever the flavour of the current methodology ;-)
   As has been pointed out althuogh not in quite these terms - to completely abandon everthing that EDIFACT etc has done would be 'throwing the baby out with the bath water'
Cheers, Phil
----- Original Message -----
From: David Lyon
Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 1:25 AM
Subject: Re: What do people really expect from ebXML?

Mike, All,

We're told,  that at least 500 acres of trees get knocked down each day to
make paper for receipts. Something totally needless in an electronic world.

I know of one company that spends $700,000 per year on paper to print
statements. There must be tens of thousands of others needlessly consuming
world resources.

People *expect* that ebXML will do something about providing solutions that
will slow down the very real carnage that is going on in the world.

It's possible that people in America may have disposed themselves of the
Kioto treaties, but the rest of the world hasn't.

Please give us a bit of a break, technical people like myself need
"specifications" for electronic commerce so that we can produce solutions to
solve these world problems.

That's what we were told to expect from ebXML !

----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Rawlins <mike@rawlinsecconsulting.com>
To: <ebxml-core@lists.ebxml.org>
Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2001 9:45 AM
Subject: Re: What do people really expect from ebXML?

> This discussion seems to have gone from "What do people expect" - which is
> marketing, to "what do people want?" - which is about requirements.  The
> authoritative answer to the latter is the ebXML Requirements Spec.
> Regarding the list of topics which Bob Haugen sent out in a recent
> * deliver full UML models from business process to basic
> components;
> * be compatible with X12 and EDIFACT;
> * deliver something simple right now that small businesses
> who cannot even afford PC's (now $600) can use.
> This comes closer to a requirements list than a marketing list, but still
> completely correct for CCs or the rest of ebXML, either...
> I think what William is asking for is what some refer to as "the value
> proposition".   Perhaps this discussion might yield what he is suggesting
if the
> focus is put there.
> --
> Michael C. Rawlins, Rawlins EC Consulting
> www.rawlinsecconsulting.com
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe from this elist send a message with the single word
> "unsubscribe" in the body to: ebxml-core-request@lists.ebxml.org

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