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Subject: Re: How to Create an ebXML Order (EDI 850 transaction set)

John Evdemon wrote:

> >
> This statement is a bit misleading - this is true of ALL XML/EDI formats
> (since they were developed before ebXML).  (Note that the metadata utilized
> by XEDI is the same metadata provided by the X12 and EDIFACT libraries -
> nothing is changed.)
YOu are correct.  I should have said ALL not "most" 

> opinion) seem to be a logical starting point for this work.  Jon's group is
> going to spend a lot of time "re-inventing the wheel" to close the gap
> between XCBL and the way companies have been conducting e-business for over
> 20 years.
I don't believe it is as drastic as you make it sound.  I am not a COne
cheerleader and xCBL has its' problems however we are using it as a
starting point.  We may decide to totally disregard it and start from
scratch.   xCBL has a fairly wide level of adoption among industry
groups and there is a lot fo feedback that we can use.

> structures you need).  If, however, you are mapping to xCBL or another
> "standard", you will have problems -- its like trying to pour 5 gallons of
> water into a 3 gallon container.
More like 5 gallons of water into a 1.97 bushel potato sack.  The world
is truly broken <sigh>.  

Simply put - one to one mappings ususally don't work due to a complete
mismatch at the document level.  How can one map to an element in a
target document when the information was not present in the original
document?  I have ideas for this which involve "installing" core
components on the source machine.  The CC's can read for information or
take certain actions when needed such as promting a user for input.  It
is a lot more complex however my tests indicate that it will work.

> Having the correct template can be a rather tall order - how is this
> template developed?  Where does it come from?

The template is built by hand from our template editor (GoXML
Transform).  A free download is available (time limited) at
http://www.xmlglobal.com/prod/transform but I would wait about two weeks
for the newer version.

We build the tamplate by performing lookups into our ebXML Registry to
examine the core components.  The CC's contain information to help in
mapping to the target format.

> I am not talking about
> process (e.g. how the transformation occurs) - process is the easy part.
> The difficulty lies in preserving the semantics of the transaction to be
> mapped (especially when the intended target may not support them).
That is why ebXML uses a declarative business process initiation
technique.  I delcare what I need so you have only two steps to
determine if you can do business with me:

1.  Can you recognize all the semantics of the infromation I require and
send it to me?
2.  Do the subsequent reply messages contain the information I require?

If either one of these are "no" answers,  then the process cannot be
facilitated and a CPA should not be entered into.

It is,  as you state,  not easily possible to map to a target which
doesn;t support your semantics.  Example - if I need only the first name
returned to me in an acknowledgement and your target format asks me to
map firstname and lastname to "name",  how do you separate it out to
satisfy my business needs.

The answers will lie in the development of an ebXML compliant business
language.  Other languages might then follow suite and adjust their
content a bit to be compatible while still meeting businessneeds.

BTW - there are a lot larger problems too than you describe.  It is a

> > I am working n a version that uses XMLG components to buidlthe output.
> > If you want to give it a try,  ask me and I will post the two documents
> > to the list.
> >
> Please do, I'd love to see the documents.  (If this is too far off-topic
> please send them to me directly.)

I will arrange this soon (they will be posted to an HTML page for
download with instructions)



> Regards,
> johnE

Duane Nickull, CTO - Founder
XML Global Technologies, Inc.

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