David RR Webber wrote: > > Chris, > > This is a long topic. > > The premise behind WSDL - is all technology based. > > When you use an editing tool - like VisualScript or XMLSpy, > you see that just from the XML point of view there's a lot > of repetitive cross information - that you keep entering - if > nothing else this is confusing - and this is the nature of > the beast - I heard someone describe it as a freight train > car - and any hobo is allowed to hop on and make their > own bed. > > It's certainly a very different model and approach from > OASIS CPA - which is heavily business-centric in > many ways - and this is the disconnect. People are > trying to use WSDL to described business > interactions and it was never designed for that. Examples of such "people"? Joe > WSDL is the way it is because of its original > requirements and use case design. Its hard to > go back and retool that - and there is where this > sits. The same thing applies to XSD too. The > W3C is solving a different set of problems than > people are expecting to be able to solve. > > DW. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <chris.hipson@bt.com> > To: <david@drrw.info>; <chiusano_joseph@bah.com>; > <ebxml-dev@lists.ebxml.org>; <regrep@lists.oasis-open.org>; > <ebsoa@lists.oasis-open.org> > Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 4:12 AM > Subject: RE: [ebsoa] Re: [regrep] Did ebXML Help Accelerate the Web Services > Evolution? > > David Webber said > > "from an unsustainable model - to wit - WSDL." > > In what areas are WSDL unsustainable? What improvements would be > required to 'make it work'? > > Cheers Chris Hipson > Web Service Technology Consultant > -----Original Message----- > From: David RR Webber [mailto:david@drrw.info] > Sent: 24 March 2004 20:44 > To: Chiusano Joseph; ebxml-dev@lists.ebxml.org; > regrep@lists.oasis-open.org; ebSOA > Subject: [ebsoa] Re: [regrep] Did ebXML Help Accelerate the Web Services > Evolution? > > Joe, > > You remind me of Nelson on the deck of the Victory at the > Battle of the Nile - "I see no ships!" (looking with his > blind-eye through his telescope).... > > Web services is not even close to being finished yet - and > a whole chunk of it is futilely recreating ebXML functionality, > but from an unsustainable model - to wit - WSDL. > > Let's be clear here - Bob Sutor's decision was deterimental > to everything and driven by his own self-interest - and by > Microsoft and IBM thinking they could get there first. > > Well they did not, and they have merely succeeded in > confusing the marketplace and adding much wasted time > to the whole process - including mine in typing this and > yours in reading it. Customers would already be buying > consistent ebSOA were it not for their confusion caused > by web service FUD. > > I'm throughly disinterested in the web service fraternity > continued efforts to re-write history and make like today > they have everything working better than ebXML. > > First it was 'web services is simpler than ebXML - which > is too complicated". Now its - 'web services are more > complete than ebXML - which is only limited and old'. > > Fact is - ebXML is well suited to its mission profile and > therefore is coherent and consistent. And like any > great technology - ebXML is evolving, maturing and > growing. Web services are anything but - fragmented, > dispersed and subject to proprietary whims - so what > did web services learn from ebXML? Frankly very little. > > Cheers, DW. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chiusano Joseph" <chiusano_joseph@bah.com> > To: <ebxml-dev@lists.ebxml.org>; <regrep@lists.oasis-open.org>; "ebSOA" > <ebsoa@lists.oasis-open.org> > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 12:31 PM > Subject: [regrep] Did ebXML Help Accelerate the Web Services Evolution? > > > I'm in a bit of a "controversial" (tongue-in-cheek) mood today, so I > > thought I'd through this out and see what comes back. My thoughts are > > spurred by a book on that I am currently reading. Please note as you > > read this that I am in a position in which I am vendor neutral. > > > > 3 years ago, when the first phase of ebXML was getting ready to wind > > down, I was a mere observer on various listservs, so I don't have the > > perspective of someone who was in the throws of things. However, I've > > been thinking: Did ebXML Help Accelerate the Web Services Evolution? > > > > More specifically: I understand that there was a "schism" of sorts at > > one point (exactly when I am not sure) in which several major vendors > > pulled out of ebXML. These vendors happen to be those that are > > considered to be the driving forces behind Web Services (by this I > mean > > the "SOAP/WSDL/UDDI"). Web Services. > > > > I wonder - if this "schism" did not take place (assuming that it > indeed > > did), would Web Services have taken off as quickly as they did? Did > this > > "schism" give more motivation to these vendors to evolve the "base" > Web > > Services standards as quickly as they were evolved? What if these > > vendors had not pulled out of ebXML? What would the landscape look > like > > now? > > > > Thoughts? Comments? > > > > Kind Regards, > > Joe Chiusano > > > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list (and be removed from the roster > of > the OASIS TC), go to > http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/regrep/members/leave_workgr > oup.php. > > > > The ebxml-dev list is sponsored by OASIS <http://www.oasis-open.org> The list archives are at http://lists.ebxml.org/archives/ebxml-dev/ To subscribe or unsubscribe from this list use the subscription manager: <http://www.oasis-open.org/mlmanage/>
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