Yes - but I believe that you originally characterized the situation (a "disconnect") as much more grave than that. I was expecting to see a very long list, rather than 2 examples. Joe David RR Webber wrote: > > Joe, > > See the BPEL TC work - and the issues BPSS and ebMS > is having trying to make some sort of WSDL works OK. > > DW. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Chiusano Joseph" <chiusano_joseph@bah.com> > > > > > > It's certainly a very different model and approach from > > > OASIS CPA - which is heavily business-centric in > > > many ways - and this is the disconnect. People are > > > trying to use WSDL to described business > > > interactions and it was never designed for that. > > > > Examples of such "people"? > > > > Joe > > > > > WSDL is the way it is because of its original > > > requirements and use case design. Its hard to > > > go back and retool that - and there is where this > > > sits. The same thing applies to XSD too. The > > > W3C is solving a different set of problems than > > > people are expecting to be able to solve. > > > > > > DW. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: <chris.hipson@bt.com> > > > To: <david@drrw.info>; <chiusano_joseph@bah.com>; > > > <ebxml-dev@lists.ebxml.org>; <regrep@lists.oasis-open.org>; > > > <ebsoa@lists.oasis-open.org> > > > Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 4:12 AM > > > Subject: RE: [ebsoa] Re: [regrep] Did ebXML Help Accelerate the Web > Services > > > Evolution? > > > > > > David Webber said > > > > > > "from an unsustainable model - to wit - WSDL." > > > > > > In what areas are WSDL unsustainable? What improvements would be > > > required to 'make it work'? > > > > > > Cheers Chris Hipson > > > Web Service Technology Consultant > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: David RR Webber [mailto:david@drrw.info] > > > Sent: 24 March 2004 20:44 > > > To: Chiusano Joseph; ebxml-dev@lists.ebxml.org; > > > regrep@lists.oasis-open.org; ebSOA > > > Subject: [ebsoa] Re: [regrep] Did ebXML Help Accelerate the Web Services > > > Evolution? > > > > > > Joe, > > > > > > You remind me of Nelson on the deck of the Victory at the > > > Battle of the Nile - "I see no ships!" (looking with his > > > blind-eye through his telescope).... > > > > > > Web services is not even close to being finished yet - and > > > a whole chunk of it is futilely recreating ebXML functionality, > > > but from an unsustainable model - to wit - WSDL. > > > > > > Let's be clear here - Bob Sutor's decision was deterimental > > > to everything and driven by his own self-interest - and by > > > Microsoft and IBM thinking they could get there first. > > > > > > Well they did not, and they have merely succeeded in > > > confusing the marketplace and adding much wasted time > > > to the whole process - including mine in typing this and > > > yours in reading it. Customers would already be buying > > > consistent ebSOA were it not for their confusion caused > > > by web service FUD. > > > > > > I'm throughly disinterested in the web service fraternity > > > continued efforts to re-write history and make like today > > > they have everything working better than ebXML. > > > > > > First it was 'web services is simpler than ebXML - which > > > is too complicated". Now its - 'web services are more > > > complete than ebXML - which is only limited and old'. > > > > > > Fact is - ebXML is well suited to its mission profile and > > > therefore is coherent and consistent. And like any > > > great technology - ebXML is evolving, maturing and > > > growing. Web services are anything but - fragmented, > > > dispersed and subject to proprietary whims - so what > > > did web services learn from ebXML? Frankly very little. > > > > > > Cheers, DW. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Chiusano Joseph" <chiusano_joseph@bah.com> > > > To: <ebxml-dev@lists.ebxml.org>; <regrep@lists.oasis-open.org>; "ebSOA" > > > <ebsoa@lists.oasis-open.org> > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 12:31 PM > > > Subject: [regrep] Did ebXML Help Accelerate the Web Services Evolution? > > > > > > > I'm in a bit of a "controversial" (tongue-in-cheek) mood today, so I > > > > thought I'd through this out and see what comes back. My thoughts are > > > > spurred by a book on that I am currently reading. Please note as you > > > > read this that I am in a position in which I am vendor neutral. > > > > > > > > 3 years ago, when the first phase of ebXML was getting ready to wind > > > > down, I was a mere observer on various listservs, so I don't have the > > > > perspective of someone who was in the throws of things. However, I've > > > > been thinking: Did ebXML Help Accelerate the Web Services Evolution? > > > > > > > > More specifically: I understand that there was a "schism" of sorts at > > > > one point (exactly when I am not sure) in which several major vendors > > > > pulled out of ebXML. These vendors happen to be those that are > > > > considered to be the driving forces behind Web Services (by this I > > > mean > > > > the "SOAP/WSDL/UDDI"). Web Services. > > > > > > > > I wonder - if this "schism" did not take place (assuming that it > > > indeed > > > > did), would Web Services have taken off as quickly as they did? Did > > > this > > > > "schism" give more motivation to these vendors to evolve the "base" > > > Web > > > > Services standards as quickly as they were evolved? What if these > > > > vendors had not pulled out of ebXML? What would the landscape look > > > like > > > > now? > > > > > > > > Thoughts? Comments? > > > > > > > > Kind Regards, > > > > Joe Chiusano > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list (and be removed from the roster > > > of > > > the OASIS TC), go to > > > http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/regrep/members/leave_workgr > > > oup.php. > > > > > > > > > > The ebxml-dev list is sponsored by OASIS <http://www.oasis-open.org> The list archives are at http://lists.ebxml.org/archives/ebxml-dev/ To subscribe or unsubscribe from this list use the subscription manager: <http://www.oasis-open.org/mlmanage/>
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