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Subject: RE: [ebxml-mktg-sc] 9/23/2002: Web Services trends and ebXML
Monica, I STRONGLY disagree with this world view!!! Yes - ebXML does provide a UMM model view that WS does not. However ebXML ALSO provides key underpinning that is just totalling missing in WS. So - to me WS is a thin layer in the middle - focusing on a narrow part of the solution space - thats scrambling to re-invent peices that ebXML already delivers. It very much is an opportunistic approach based around the Nike - just do it - build out - load, fire, aim. And now they are scrambling to add substance around that thin start of UDDI + SOAP + WSDL. On the BPEL4WS- this is a classic example - we now have four of these (not counting prior non-XML workflow efforts!) BPMI, BPSS, WS-I and BPEL4WS - no surprise that customers are crying "foul" - and forcing vendors to sit down and come up with just ONE single approach here. So rather than ebXML having a narrower bottom - its very clear that only ebXML is addressing the KEY need of transaction assembly and integration. WS right now is very much that realtime-EDI content and service delivery. Sooner or later people will realize there is no free lunch. You need the mature and secure interchange model (so this is exactly what we see - that WS is adding all this - reinventing the ebMS wheel within W3C). The right intersection to me is to prevent this chaos - define WS as a layer within the overall architecture. Therefore you end up with ebXML + WS - where WS leverage the information architecture of ebXML - registry, assembly, dictionary components, and the partner model - CPA/CPP, and then there is a common BP system in the middle that orchestrates the two delivery models - ebMS or WS. The modelling UMM layer then sits above both of these as a neutral representation. Notice this also continues with the ebXML philosophy of allowing layers to be used standalone, or in combinations as needed. DW. ============================================================= Message text written by Monica Martin >======================================================================== ========Actually, I think the issue is that WS are coming from the bottom up (infrastructure to domain) and ebXML is coming from the top down (domain to infrastructure). So when WS get up to the domain level, they will have a "wider top" than ebXML - they will support more domains. When ebXML gets down to the infrastructure level, it will have a "narrower bottom" than WS - it will provide less infrastructure. Given that there are tremendous economies of scale in reusing infrastructure, WS will become the dominant model for exchanging documents. WS-* and BPEL4WS are examples of higher and higher levels of infrastructure expanding the reach of the model. But they are not focused on any particular domain. I think the reasonable course for ebXML to follow is to redefine itself as a domain model on top of the WS infrastructure. Take all of the requirements definition and business modeling in ebXML as the input for generating a set of conventions for using the WS infrastructure. Define the CPP WS for interrogating CPPs. Define a mechanical way to generate a BPEL4WS choreography from a CPA. Define a mechanical way to define the required WS-Security and WS-Coordination properties from a CPA. And so on. A good test to see if ebXML is doing this right is to check that there are no ebXML header elements in SOAP messages. <
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