ebxml-mktg message

Subject: [ebxml-mktg] FW: [ebxml-dev] Gartner and ebXML

From: "Yader, Mark (GXS)" <Mark.Yader@gxs.ge.com>
To: ebxml-mktg@lists.ebxml.org
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 2002 09:36:39 -0400

Title: FW: [ebxml-dev] Gartner and ebXML

FYI.....

        -------- Message d'origine--------
        De: Steve Capell
        Date: mar. 9/10/2002 12:42
        À: Brian Repko; ebxml-dev@lists.ebxml.org
        Cc:
        Objet: RE: [ebxml-dev] Gartner and ebXML

        Brian,

        Gartner has published quite a bit of material on ebXML.
Apparently their
        internal search engine returns 80 hits on ebXML. I attach some
excerpts
        below. I think the problem is that they see it as a complex,
        "over-engineered" solution in the context of web services. They
do admit
        that complex standards such as ebXML and RosettaNet are needed
for B2B
        automation (as distinct from simple web-services).

        It is just a bit unfortunate that gartner don't make it clear
that ebXML is
        "necessarily complex" - ie that is just complex enough to meet
the
        requirements of scalable B2B interoperability.

        I'd suggest that a major focus of the ebxml marketing group
should be to
        work with Gartner on a series of papers focussed on "scalable
        interoperability" (or some other relevant title) that make the
case for
        ebXML style "complex web services". The ebXML marketing group
is free to
        use the attached white paper as a starting point.

        Regards,

        Steve Capell
        RedWahoo
        Sydney, Australia
        Tel : +61 410 437854

        *********************************
        Comments from Gartner
        *********************************

        Explaining Web Services' Apparent Contradictions (AV-16-4551)
        ebXML - the OSI of Web Services
        Another misconception surrounding Web services is that many
enterprises
        often incorrectly lump them together with grand
business-to-business (B2B)
        schemes, such as ebXML and RosettaNet. Although these B2B
schemes are
        needed, and they eventually may employ Web services technologies
as
        lower-level underpinnings (for example, ebXML in the future will
use SOAP
        messaging), they are overkill for Web services uses today. In
fact, the
        over-engineered status of ebXML in particular is very
reminiscent of Open
        Systems Interconnection (OSI) networking and how it lost out to
the
        Internet's iterative "good enough" approach, which has been
proven time and
        again.

        Web Services Fragmentation Wars Begin (COM-16-3650)
        Sun appears to still feel the pain from its early snub regarding
Web
        services and seems to take every opportunity to make much out of
little over
        IBM's partial ownership of patents on ebXML. Sun has continually
tried to
        change the subject by bringing up ebXML as a more-robust
specification for
        Web services. As such, Sun has been anything but a victim in
these areas.
        Gartner feels that ebXML does not represent practical Web
services today,
        and thus largely misses the point of vendors advocating
simplicity until
        enterprises learn the basics.

        Q&A: What to Expect From Web Services Now ... and Later
(QA-16-6289)
        Aren't more-specific standards (such as ebXML) needed for
successful
        interenterprise adoption of Web services? For example, how would
an order be
        sent without a specific definition of what an order is?
        Standards such as ebXML are needed for constructs such as orders
and other
        complex, higher-level business-to-business (B2B) interactions.
However,
        these are more the domain of B2B standards, such as RosettaNet
and ebXML,
        rather than Web services. There is no concept of "an order" in
Web services;
        the building blocks are much simpler. Over time, B2B
implementations will
        increasingly run with Web services technologies as their
underpinning.

        ****************************************

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Brian Repko [ mailto:brian_repko@hotmail.com]
        Sent: Tuesday, 10 September 2002 2:56 AM
        To: ebxml-dev@lists.ebxml.org
        Subject: [ebxml-dev] Gartner and ebXML



        ebXML developers:

        Please forward to the marketing forum if more appropriate
        to be there, but I just read through all the presentations
        that are on the latest Gartner CD for Application Integration.
        There was little to no mention of ebXML even in spots where
        it should be mentioned ("there is no standard for reliable
        messaging with web services").

        ebXML is clearly NOT winning mindshare with Gartner and if
        you don't get to them, then you don't get to people that can
        make business decisions about it.

        Brian Repko





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Attachment: Scalable Interoperability.pdf
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