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Subject: RE: [ebxml-mktg] FW: [ebxml-dev] Gartner and ebXML


Thank you for passing that note along.  It is important to know what the analysts are saying, particularly if they are repeating the OSI comparison, which has become the smear du jour of the anti-ebXML crowd.

It is also important that we develop an overall communications strategy that defines objectives, identifies audiences, establishes overall themes, identifies resources at our disposal (and resources we may need to acquire), and prepares messages to meet our communications objectives.  In other words, we need to define our message, and not let others do it for us.  If not, we will find ourselves in a no-win, never-ending reactive mode.

The marketing/awareness team during the ebXML development project succeeded in getting some of that strategy in place, and you can see the recurring themes in the white paper, FAQs, presentations, releases, and articles that came out in  the first part of 2001.  We need to start getting back into that proactive mode, so we can drive our point home more effectively. Best regards.

Alan Kotok
Editor, <E-Business*Standards*Today/>, http://www.disa.org/dailywire/
Co-author, ebXML: The New Global Standard (Sept 2001, New Riders), http://www.ebxmlbooks.com/

"Yader, Mark (GXS)" <Mark.Yader@gxs.ge.com> wrote:

>    -------- Message d'origine--------
>    De: Steve Capell
>    Date: mar. 9/10/2002 12:42
>    À: Brian Repko; ebxml-dev@lists.ebxml.org
>    Cc:
>    Objet: RE: [ebxml-dev] Gartner and ebXML
>    Brian,
>    Gartner has published quite a bit of material on ebXML.
>Apparently their
>    internal search engine returns 80 hits on ebXML.  I attach some
>    below.  I think the problem is that they see it as a complex,
>    "over-engineered" solution in the context of web services.  They
>do admit
>    that complex standards such as ebXML and RosettaNet are needed
>for B2B
>    automation (as distinct from simple web-services).
>    It is just a bit unfortunate that gartner don't make it clear
>that ebXML is
>    "necessarily complex" - ie that is just complex enough to meet
>    requirements of scalable B2B interoperability.
>    I'd suggest that a major focus of the ebxml marketing group
>should be to
>    work with Gartner on a series of papers focussed on "scalable
>    interoperability" (or some other relevant title) that make the
>case for
>    ebXML style "complex web services".  The ebXML marketing group
>is free to
>    use the attached white paper as a starting point.
>    Regards,
>    Steve Capell
>    RedWahoo
>    Sydney, Australia
>    Tel : +61 410 437854
>    *********************************
>    Comments from Gartner
>    *********************************
>    Explaining Web Services' Apparent Contradictions (AV-16-4551)
>    ebXML - the OSI of Web Services
>    Another misconception surrounding Web services is that many
>    often incorrectly lump them together with grand
>business-to-business (B2B)
>    schemes, such as ebXML and RosettaNet. Although these B2B
>schemes are
>    needed, and they eventually may employ Web services technologies
>    lower-level underpinnings (for example, ebXML in the future will
>use SOAP
>    messaging), they are overkill for Web services uses today. In
>fact, the
>    over-engineered status of ebXML in particular is very
>reminiscent of Open
>    Systems Interconnection (OSI) networking and how it lost out to
>    Internet's iterative "good enough" approach, which has been
>proven time and
>    again.
>    Web Services Fragmentation Wars Begin (COM-16-3650)
>    Sun appears to still feel the pain from its early snub regarding
>    services and seems to take every opportunity to make much out of
>little over
>    IBM's partial ownership of patents on ebXML. Sun has continually
>tried to
>    change the subject by bringing up ebXML as a more-robust
>specification for
>    Web services. As such, Sun has been anything but a victim in
>these areas.
>    Gartner feels that ebXML does not represent practical Web
>services today,
>    and thus largely misses the point of vendors advocating
>simplicity until
>    enterprises learn the basics.
>    Q&A: What to Expect From Web Services Now ... and Later
>    Aren't more-specific standards (such as ebXML) needed for
>    interenterprise adoption of Web services? For example, how would
>an order be
>    sent without a specific definition of what an order is?
>    Standards such as ebXML are needed for constructs such as orders
>and other
>    complex, higher-level business-to-business (B2B) interactions.
>    these are more the domain of B2B standards, such as RosettaNet
>and ebXML,
>    rather than Web services. There is no concept of "an order" in
>Web services;
>    the building blocks are much simpler. Over time, B2B
>implementations will
>    increasingly run with Web services technologies as their
>    ****************************************
>    -----Original Message-----
>    From: Brian Repko [ mailto:brian_repko@hotmail.com]
>    Sent: Tuesday, 10 September 2002 2:56 AM
>    To: ebxml-dev@lists.ebxml.org
>    Subject: [ebxml-dev] Gartner and ebXML
>    ebXML developers:
>    Please forward to the marketing forum if more appropriate
>    to be there, but I just read through all the presentations
>    that are on the latest Gartner CD for Application Integration.
>    There was little to no mention of ebXML even in spots where
>    it should be mentioned ("there is no standard for reliable
>    messaging with web services").
>    ebXML is clearly NOT winning mindshare with Gartner and if
>    you don't get to them, then you don't get to people that can
>    make business decisions about it.
>    Brian Repko
>    Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
>    http://www.hotmail.com
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