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Subject: RE: MORE: [ebxml-mktg] FW: [ebxml-dev] Gartner and ebXML

Title: RE: MORE: [ebxml-mktg] FW: [ebxml-dev] Gartner and ebXML


YOur enthusisasm is to be applauded, but it appears that the major thrust for Web Services is focused on a "standard for EAI", not EDI. More importantly, I believe that any attempt to continue the "us versus them" or "ebXML versus WS" is detrimental.

Personally, I don't think the concept of "real-time EDI" is as important commercially as processes such as "Collaborative SCM". Does anyone really care what "real time" is (other than the folks looking for Earthquakes and weather-related disasters) ?

Just some personal thoughts.......


-----Original Message-----
From: David RR Webber - XMLGlobal [mailto:Gnosis_@compuserve.com]
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 11:51 AM
To: Yader, Mark (GXS)
Cc: ebxml-mktg@lists.ebxml.org
Subject: MORE: [ebxml-mktg] FW: [ebxml-dev] Gartner and ebXML


Steve Capells notes are useful.

An "Ah ha!" moment came to me over the last day and a half;
why did I not see this more clearly before!

Web services is exactly analogous to Realtime EDI.

It's exactly like people have re-discovered Realtime EDI,
over the Internet with XML and without having to have
the dedicated networks (maybe!).

Now what is interesting is that we (us old EDI bigots) know
only too well the limitations and gotchas with realtime EDI
from the school of hard knocks.

I think it is about time we strongly go out there and say
"web services = realtime EDI + XML + Internet, been there
done that".

Once people make this connection - its a small step for
them to realize - OK - so now we understand the beast -
we'd better get those same controls we needed with
realtime EDI in place - and that folks is ebXML.  And
just like realtime EDI is a cousin of batch EDI, the
same relationship exists here - ebXML leads and WS
needs to follow.

Looking at the history here, it is instructive to see that in
ebXML Phase 1 - we explicitly put forms and realtime
as out of scope - to make the work load achievable.

Now of course - since IBM splintered off UDDI -  we
see that this whole "interactive" component is what
they targetted - and that's OK - except to see this
as the SOLE model for all interactions is clearly
ludicrous - and the driver is the batch process driven
backend systems (where fully 90% of the cost savings
are), and these can be complimented by adding
realtime interfaces for the human aspects of those
backends, but you cannot replace batch model with
ad hoc realtime.

Does everyone agree with this view - and if so - then
can we refine this here - and then take this message
to the listservers in a big way over this coming week?

Thanks, DW

Message text written by "Yader, Mark (GXS)"
>I'd suggest that a major focus of the ebxml marketing group
should be to
        work with Gartner on a series of papers focussed on "scalable
        interoperability" (or some other relevant title) that make the
case for
        ebXML style "complex web services".  The ebXML marketing group
is free to
        use the attached white paper as a starting point.<

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