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Subject: RE: [ebxml-mktg] Gartner & ebXML again

Title: RE: [ebxml-mktg] Gartner & ebXML again

Personally, I wouldn't expect any ebXML discussion, either positive or negative, at a conference that focuses on EAI. ebXML is a B2B framework incorporating a "business quality messaging" transport (ebMS), value-added services by integrating Reg/Rep and BPSS into a cohesive architecture. Any company who is seriously concerned about quality, reliability, flexibility,..........will look at something more than just EAI/WS solutions.

Some personal reflections......


-----Original Message-----
From: Robert.Breton@sybase.com [mailto:Robert.Breton@sybase.com]
Sent: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 6:53 PM
To: Steve Capell
Cc: ebxml-mktg@lists.ebxml.org
Subject: Re: [ebxml-mktg] Gartner & ebXML again

I recently participated in the Gartner EAI/WS conference in Chicago, and I
did not see a lot of negativity in the positioning of ebXML.   There
definitely are differing opinions within Gartner,, but my experience has
been positive with those analysts who understand the B2B and integration
market spaces.   The challenge facing the ebXML community within the
analyst community is the demonstration of sufficient critical mass in the
market to validate its market acceptance as a standard.

In my view Gartner ,has actually become more positive as the standard has
matured.  We brought a customer to the Gartner EAI/WS conference to present
their implementation of ebXML and received positive feedback.  It's
critical that all participants in the ebXML effort continue to encourage
exposure of successes in the marketplace, especially within the analyst
community.  Rather than fighting the Web Services hype cycle, my view is
that we should be better aligning both the technology and market
strategies, and recognize that there will be areas of misunderstanding or
bias that will only be overcome by proven market acceptance.

I'm sure some have heard the Gartner quote about ebXML as being the "OSI of
Web Services", so I don't want to leave the impression that there is not a
negative viewpoint from some analysts within Gartner.  The analysts that
cover Web Services generally present a less positive perspective, so I'd
recommend that you point customers to analysts more focused on B2B and EAI

If you're lookiing to specific Gartner analysts to help in presenting a
"fair" view to your customers,  I would encourage you to work with Jess
Thompson, Deborah Hess, Daid McCoy and others who have published, in my
opinion, balanced perspectives on ebXML within Gartner.

Some references you may want to pass on with ebXML mentions in Garnter
research are:

ebXML Specifications Are Complete, Adoption Under Way
Driving Web Services Success in Vertical Markets
UDDI (Universal Description, Discovery, and Integration) and Web Services:
Architectures for HIPAA Compliance

For those who would like more background on what Sybase is doing in this
area, I'd recommend looking at the information published at our open source
areas where we've made our implementation of the ebXML available:

Bob Breton
Senior Director, Product Strategy
Sybase eBusiness Division
510-589-1668 (cell)
925-236-6176 (fax)

                    Steve Capell                                                                                     
                    <steve.capell@red       To:     ebxml-mktg@lists.ebxml.org                                       
                    wahoo.com>              cc:                                                                      
                                            Subject:     [ebxml-mktg] Gartner & ebXML again                          
                    11/13/2002 01:49                                                                                 

Hello all,

Gartner is running a 5 day symposium in Sydney right now.  I am not
attending but some of my customers (industry and government) are
present.   I have spent some time over the last year convincing my
customers that ebXML provides a solid foundation for scalable
interoperability and that their B2B strategy should be based on ebXML

Unfortunately Gartner presented ebXML in a very negative light (too
complex, will never catch on, etc, etc).  Whether deserved or not,
Gartner does represent a "trusted authority" on these issues so their
comments are taken very seriously.

The consequence for the ebXML effort in Australia is not good and I will
probably have to think about re-positioning ebXML myself (I just cant
fight Microsoft, IBM, Gartner, etc on my own..).

I have yet to meet a "technology analyst" that really understands this
space so have a strong suspicion that much of the negative ("too
complex") positioning is simply because Gartner themselves do not
understand how the ebXML framework fits together and haw it can address
genuine B2B issues.  Having said that, I feel that the ebXML community
itself must shoulder a significant part of the blame for this knowledge
gap.  I have said before that the state of the standards development
work is not the limiting factor for ebXML - it is the (very poor) level
of awareness of ebXML in the marketplace.

Does anyone have any recent and positive references from Gartner that I
can use to do a little re-building of ebXML credibility here in


Steve Capell
Sydney, Australia
+61 410 437854

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