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Subject: RE: DTD, XSD and sample XML header docs


Chris

See comments below marked with <db></db>

David

-----Original Message-----
From: Christopher Ferris [mailto:chris.ferris@east.sun.com]
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2000 7:45 PM
To: David Burdett
Cc: Ebxml Transport
Subject: Re: DTD, XSD and sample XML header docs


David,

Quite possible, I have so many versions and I was pretty tired;-)
Thanks for taking the time to review.

More comments below.

Cheers,

Chris

David Burdett wrote:
> 
> Chris
> 
> I'm not absolutely sure, but I think you might have based your DTDs on a
> slightly out-of-date version of the spec. I've compared what you've done
> with version 0.5 of the header spec and here are the differences ... and
> also a couple of questions/comments. These are all based on the XSD
version
> of the header.
> 
> David
> =====================
> 1. MESSAGE MANIFEST
> This should not be in the header, the structure should be more like ...
> <ebXMLHeader>
>   <MessageManifest>
>     ...
>   </MessageManifest>
>   <MessageHeader>
>     ...
>   </MessageHeader>
> </ebXMLHeader>

It isn't clear that we need to label the header element 'ebXMLHeader'
if it is qualified by a namespace and then have a separate MessageHeader
element contained within. I certainly have no problem with this, just
asking the tough questions;-) If others agree, then I'll make the
change.
<db>I agree that this should just be Header and use a namespace to qualify
it. On this point, I've just been looking at the XMLdsig spec and they use
the namespace for versioning (see
http://www.w3.org/TR/2000/WD-xmldsig-core-20000601/). This is also the
approach used by SOAP (see http://www.w3.org/TR/2000/NOTE-SOAP-20000508. We
should consider using a similar versioning approach ourselves.
</db>
> 
> 2. REF MESSAGE ID
> a) This should be RefToMessageId
> b) It isn't optional since if there is no earlier message it contains
> "NotApplicable"

Okay, I'll add that constraint and usage comment.

> 
> 3. TRANSPORT SLA ID
> a) This should be optional as it defaults to a "standard SLA for the
> Transport Protocol". (Although if we are to be consistent with
> RefToMessageId, perhaps it should contain
"StandardSLAForTransportProtocol")

I would prefer 'default'. See 20 character rule below.
<db>Sounds good to me</db>
> b) I don't think we can mandate this be a URI, for the same reason that we
> can't make "Address" a URI. It just needs to be a code that can be
> recognized unambiguously by the parties involved. A URI is one way, but
not
> the only way, of achieving this.

I don't see what the issue is. A 'code' *is* a URI if properly scoped. I am
actually quite uncomfortable in leaving too much to the imagination. I would
much prefer that we adhere to use of URIs as that was their intent. Bottom
line is that it is just a string even if it IS a URI and that can be
handled just like a 'code' in the implementation details of resolving the
URI, IMHO.
<db>Except that if you want to be sure that your URI is unique I think you
either need a domain name or register your URN if you want to be sure you
are unique. I don't think we should force people to do this before they use
ebXML messaging.</db>
> 
> 4. RELIABLE MESSAGING INFO
> a) the enumerated list should just have "AtMostOnce" and "Unspecified" in
it

I thik we should discuss this. I don't see any reason why we wouldn't want
to include them all at this stage,
<db>... except that they aren't in the v 0.5 spec</db>
even if we aren't going to specify these
levels in the original round of the RMS. Implementations should be free to
use these semantics, IMHO.<db>Perhaps but only if WE define exactly what the
semantics mean ...</db>

> b) I think we need to cater for three situations eventually (... but
perhaps
> not in a level 1 header). Specifically:
>   i) Where there is no reliable messaging implied (i.e.
> DeliverySemantics="Unspecified")
>   ii) Where there is reliable messaging (DeliverySemantics="AtMostOnce",
but
> there is no Transport SLA. In this case either:
>       * use ebXML specified default values for the Transport protocol if
> there is no TransportSLAId specified, or
>       * include the required paramter information in the Reliable
Messaging
> Info, this will have to wait until after we've done the Reliable Messaging
> Spec
>   iii) When there is a pre-existing Transport SLA, in which case, perhaps
we
> should set DeliverySemantics="TransportSLA"
> Either way I think we need to do more thinking about this as we work on
the
> reliable messaging spec.

Agreed that we need to discuss further. I started thinking this just after
I finished the DTD, etc last night and I'm probably getting closer to where
you
are on this issue;-) Let's plan on a discussion during the con-call if
there's
time. I'm pretty busy 'til then I'm afraid.

> 
> 5. ADDRESS and ADDRESS CONTEXT
> I'd prefer the style ...
> 
>   <From>
>     <PartyId AddressContext="duns">12345</PartyId>
>   </From>
> 
> ... or perhaps it would be better as ...
>   <From>
>     <PartyId
>       <Address Context="duns">12345</Address>
>     </PartyId>
>   </From>

I prefer the former, but still think that a URN would
be more than adequate;-) 
<db>Yes, but not everyone will have a URN they can use.</db>

In that event, it isn't clear
what value add there is of the nested elements when

<From>urn:duns:12345</From>

or

<From address="urn:duns:12345"/>

would do. Oops, I hear the attribute vs element war heating up!
Hold onto your hats!

> 
> ... if the address cannot be expressed as a URN, or ...
> 
>   <From>
>     <PartyId >urn:duns.com#12345</PartyId>
>   </From>
> 
> ... or perhaps ...
> 
>   <From>
>     <PartyId
>       <Address>urn:duns.com#12345</Address>
>     </PartyId>
>   </From>
> 
> ... if it can.
> 
> 6. DOCTYPE and DOCID
> a) Why do we abbreviate these ... I don't think we abbreviate anything
else

I abbreviated TransportServiceLevelAgreementId !!!!! Actually, I started
from the work that John I started with, so I was probably lazy and didn't
change those elements which were essentially the same from the original
level4.dtd. I have no issue with expanding the naming. I do think that
we should have an ebXML style guide as someone suggested. Maybe a limit
of 20 chars on an element or attribute name and then it is okay to
abbreviate as long as the DTD/XSD is well documented with the explicit
meaning of the element name, etc.

> b) "DocType" should be "DocumentLabel"

Actually, DocumentLabel can be expressed as an href (and it may well be
an href) and therefore I would prefer DocumentId
<db>I think there's a misunderstanding.
1. DocumentId should be a href. As it points to the document. However if you
have four DocumentIds in the manifest and you want to find, say, the
document that is say a picture of a product, you can't find out which one it
is without retrieving each document and guessing !!.
2. The idea of DocumentLabel is that it give the *reason* or *purpose* that
the document is there so that you can then search the DocumentLabels, eg.
for "ProductPicture" and then retrieve the correct document immediately.
</db>
 (actually, I would much
prefer if we consistently used all CAPS for ID e.g. DocumentID ;-)
<db>I think a simple vote on this would solve the issue</db>
> c) We will, in the spec, need to  provide much more precise semantics on
how
> to identify documents within the same message.

Indeed!

> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Christopher Ferris [mailto:chris.ferris@east.sun.com]
> Sent: Monday, June 19, 2000 6:02 PM
> To: Ebxml Transport; Christopher Ferris
> Subject: DTD, XSD and sample XML header docs
> 
> All,
> 
> Okay, I've been meaning to get this done for a while now.
> 
> Here are the "level1" DTD, XSD and sample XML documents
> based on the "published" header spec.
> 
> Your comments and feedback are welcomed. I have added a
> few annotations to spice things up a bit and generate some
> discussion.
> 
> Most notably:
>         - do we need ReliableMessagingInfo if we have a TSLA
>         - Should the PartyId be expressed as elements or as
>         follows:
>                 <!ELEMENT PartyId (#PCDATA)>
>                 <!ATTLIST PartyId context CDATA "Undefined">
>         or optionally:
>                 <!ELEMENT PartyId #EMPTY>
>                 <!ATTLIST PartyId
>                         context CDATA "Undefined"
>                         uri CDATA #REQUIRED>
>         of course, URI should have its own built-in context, so it
>         isn't clear that the context attribute adds any value.
>                 e.g. uri:duns:12345
> 
> Anyway, keep those cards and letters coming;-)
> 
> Chris
> 
> 
> --
>     _/_/_/_/ _/    _/ _/    _/ Christopher Ferris - Enterprise Architect
>    _/       _/    _/ _/_/  _/  Phone: 781-442-3063 or x23063
>   _/_/_/_/ _/    _/ _/ _/ _/   Email: chris.ferris@East.Sun.COM
>        _/ _/    _/ _/  _/_/    Sun Microsystems,  Mailstop: UBUR03-313
> _/_/_/_/  _/_/_/  _/    _/     1 Network Drive Burlington, MA 01803-0903
> 
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    _/_/_/_/ _/    _/ _/    _/ Christopher Ferris - Enterprise Architect
   _/       _/    _/ _/_/  _/  Phone: 781-442-3063 or x23063
  _/_/_/_/ _/    _/ _/ _/ _/   Email: chris.ferris@East.Sun.COM
       _/ _/    _/ _/  _/_/    Sun Microsystems,  Mailstop: UBUR03-313
_/_/_/_/  _/_/_/  _/    _/     1 Network Drive Burlington, MA 01803-0903

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