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Subject: RE: TRP Work Plan - Version 17 Aug 00
Yep, I can buy that. But it would be a good idea to sort out what comes from where and by what means. - hal ----------------- At 08:45 AM 08/25/2000 -0400, mwsachs@us.ibm.com wrote: >... and some of the information about the other partner will come from the >TPA. > >Regards, >Marty > >**************************************************************************** >********* > >Martin W. Sachs >IBM T. J. Watson Research Center >P. O. B. 704 >Yorktown Hts, NY 10598 >914-784-7287; IBM tie line 863-7287 >Notes address: Martin W Sachs/Watson/IBM >Internet address: mwsachs @ us.ibm.com >**************************************************************************** >********* > > > >Henry Lowe <hlowe@omg.org> on 08/23/2000 11:16:48 AM > >To: David Burdett <david.burdett@commerceone.com> >cc: "'Henry Lowe'" <hlowe@omg.org>, "'gvh@progress.com'" > <gvh@progress.com>, Martin W Sachs/Watson/IBM@IBMUS, "'Jim Hughes'" > <jfh@fs.fujitsu.com>, ebxml transport > <ebxml-transport@lists.ebxml.org> >Subject: RE: TRP Work Plan - Version 17 Aug 00 > > > >David, > >Please see single comment embedded below for context. > >Henry > >At 02:44 PM 08/22/2000 -0700, David Burdett wrote: >>Henry >> >>We have from the requirements and overview document ... >>>>> >>1) Servers/systems that support the exchange of documents shall be treated >>as "black boxes" >>2) The method used to transport documents shall be completely independent >>of: >> a) the hardware used by the server/services at each end >> b) the software or systems architecture of the server/services at each >the >>language used for implementation of systems and applications. >><<< >> >>I think these requirements imply that one party need have no knowledge of >>the technology used by the other party. In turn this means that: >>1. A party must be able to discover *everything* they *need* to know just >>from the message, and therefore ><hal> >I'm not sure the quote above says that everything must come from the >message itself and excludes some of it coming from parameters of the >(conceptual or real -- take you choice) service interface. While I >can't speak for Gordon, I read between the lines (always dangerous) >that he saw some of this info coming from these parameters. ></hal> > >>2. We must write the ebXML Messaging Services spec so that they can ignore >>the service interface spec **if** they want to. >> >>Please understand, that I think a service interface spec will be a very >>useful thing to have (in fact we wrote one for IOTP). I'm just arguing >that: >>1. The ebXML Messaging Services Spec should not have to rely on it >>2. Implementers don't have to built to it if they don't want to. >> >>David >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Henry Lowe [mailto:hlowe@omg.org] >>Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2000 1:40 PM >>To: David Burdett >>Cc: 'gvh@progress.com'; 'mwsachs@us.ibm.com'; 'Jim Hughes'; ebxml >>transport >>Subject: RE: TRP Work Plan - Version 17 Aug 00 >> >> >>David, >> >>You are stating a goal for our Headers here. Did we ever agree >>to this goal, i.e., all info necessary for message exchange be >>contained in the Header? I'm not saying this is a bad goal, but >>if we are not all singing from the same book, we may not agree. >> >> >>I believe Gordon pictures some additional info being conveyed >>in the parameters of the API, be it real of conceptual. Personally, >>I rather like this goal as it severly constrains the API parameters >>to be trivial. >> >>Henry >>------------------------------------------- >>At 12:50 PM 08/22/2000 -0700, David Burdett wrote: >>>Gordon >>> >>>I agree that awareness of the Interface is a benefit. I disagree that >>>"implementations of the wire protocol will require semantic knowledge >that >>>is not imparted stricly from the fields in the header". >>> >>>If we can't fully define, in our spec, the meaning or semantics behind >... >>>1. each field in the header >>>2. the meanings implied when these fields occur in combination within a >>>header >>>3. the meanings implied when messages (e.g. a normal message and it's >ack) >>>are received in a specific sequence >>> >>>... then, IMO, we are not doing our job properly. >>> >>>If we REQUIRE that particular type of interface is used to make an ebXML >>>Messaging Service Spec work, then we are creating an additional barrier >to >>>its use. >>> >>>David >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: Gordon van Huizen [mailto:gvanhuiz@progress.com] >>>Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2000 4:07 AM >>>To: David Burdett >>>Cc: 'mwsachs@us.ibm.com'; 'Jim Hughes'; ebxml transport >>>Subject: Re: TRP Work Plan - Version 17 Aug 00 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>David Burdett wrote: >>>> I think it should be possible for two parties communicating using the >TRP >>>> spec to achieve COMPLETE interoperability without implementing ANY of >the >>>> Interface spec - i.e. conformance to the wire protocol alone should >>>suffice. >>>> Do you agree? >>> >>>My assertion would be that successfully achieving interoperable >>>implementations of the wire protocol will require semantic knowledge >>>that is not imparted stricly from the fields in the header themselves >>>and can benefit from awareness of the Interface. But that's just a >>>hunch, since we aren't "there" yet. Regardless, the two levels must be >>>kept in synch for a developer to stand a chance of implementation, as >>>well as for us to actually get the spec work done. Witness the deltas >>>that are appearing elsewhere. >>> >>>-gvh- > > > >
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