RE: Manifest Element - Where located?

[ian.c.jones@bt.com]

All,

	I am concerend about having "real" paylod in the body as we then
have inconsitent handling of payloads.  So, if you have one XML message you
COULD put it in the body provided you do not need any special charcters etc.
BUT if you need special characters or more than one message what do you do?
Put them all in attachements, put the first in the body, etc.  IMHO we
should Keep It Simple, all payloads in the attachements as they are not for
the MSH it just needs to pass them on and leave all the MSH "stuff" in the
SOAP header and body as needed.

Ian Jones

-----Original Message-----
From: Miller, Robert (GXS) [mailto:Robert.Miller@gxs.ge.com]
Sent: 26 February 2001 17:11
To: Robert Fox; Miller, Robert (GXS); ebxml-transport@lists.ebxml.org
Subject: RE: Manifest Element - Where located?


I missed the discussions in Vancouver that led to the Manifest being placed
in the "body".  I hope the 'empty SOAP-ENV:Body argument did not play a
significant role in that discussion.  I would suggest that the natural
placement of the ebXML payload (in cases where the payload is an ebXML
conformant XML message) would be the SOAP-ENV:Body.  Should anyone really
care, that would reduce the number of instances of an empty SOAP-ENV:Body.
But then agian, why should anyone care about an empty body, except as an
issue to the W3C submission?

As stated in the first paragraph of 'SOAP Referneces to Attachments':

"Both the header entries and body of the primary SOAP 1.1 message may need
to refer to other entities in the message package."

In addition, the 'Actor' extension, by which mutliple header entries may be
established and processed by multiple MSH's along the way suggests that the
'Manifest' be placed in the SOAP-ENV:Header.  This would allow the Manifest
to be given attribute Actor='next' in cases where it might be appropriate
for an intermediate MSH to process the message content.  Consider a case in
which an intermediate MSH had need to look at one of the attachments (and
perhaps even remove it upon completion of its processing.) 

Prior to the introduction of the SOAP envelope, TRP had no interest in
embedding constructs like the Manifest in the application 'payload'.  SOAP
considers the SOAP-ENV:Body to be an applicaiton payload.  Thus, the
Vancouver decision to place Manifest in the SOAP-ENV:Body goes against the
grain of all the work we did prior to Vancouver.

Cheers,
        Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Fox [mailto:robertf@softshare.com]
Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 10:40 AM
To: 'Miller, Robert (GXS)'; ebxml-transport@lists.ebxml.org
Subject: RE: Manifest Element - Where located?


I disagree here... we had made the decision in Vancouver to put data in the
BODY, and routing type info in the header... it seemed like a nice logical
split that SOAP gives us that we didn't have before. The Manifest is a
logical representation of the payload, which is the "body" of the message.
So the manifest should go into the SOAP-ENV:BODY. Otherwise, we will ALWAYS
have an empty SOAP-ENV:BODY, (since it is required). The reworked placement
of the elements fell quite nicely into this updated structure.

-----Original Message-----
From: Miller, Robert (GXS) [mailto:Robert.Miller@gxs.ge.com]
Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 8:29 AM
To: ebxml-transport@lists.ebxml.org
Subject: Manifest Element - Where located?


Hi All,

I seem to recall that the Manifest element was to be placed in the
SOAP-ENV:Body.  IMO, it belongs in the SOAP-ENV:Header area.

From "SOAP Messages with Attachments"
http://msdn.microsoft.com/xml/general/soapattachspec.asp Introduction, last
two sentences of paragraph 2:

"More rigorous semantics for message packages requires a new entity type.
Such a type can be built by extending the approach described here with a new
SOAP header entry which, for instance, may be used to provide a manifest of
the complete contents of the message package."

Seems clear to me - put the Manifest in the SOAP-ENV:Header!

Of course, within the ebXML payload, there may also be imbedded pointers to
message attachments.  The first example in "SOAP Messages with Attachments"
gives one such example for an auto claim form application.  Such
'application' references are of course unrelated to the ebXML Manifest
references.

FYI, I'm not convinced that any part of the pre=SOAP ebXML header should
migrate to the SOAP-ENV:Body.  IMO, all of the ebXML Header stuff should
resdie in the SOAP-ENV:Header.

Cheers,
        Bob  

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