RE: Returning the whole message on Message Expiry Delivery Failures

[Martin W Sachs <mwsachs@us.ibm.com>]

In standards lingo, "normative" is an imperative:  "It SHALL be this way."
That's much stronger than "ought to be."  "Non-normative" (what ANSI calls
"informative") is basically advice or suggestions but is not imperative.  A
reference to something whose provisions are required by the standard that
references it is normative whether the referenced specification is
proprietary or not.  Of course there is a contradiction in terms because we
don't like an open standard to have a normative reference to something
proprietary.  However sometimes it can't be helped because sometimes a
function is needed that is not available in an open standard.  If CPA is
optional for TRP, then a reference to it from the TRP spec. would be
non-normative.

P.S. The QR team asked the TP team to have a single reference list and not
distinguish between normative and non-normative.

Regards,
Marty

*************************************************************************************

Martin W. Sachs
IBM T. J. Watson Research Center
P. O. B. 704
Yorktown Hts, NY 10598
914-784-7287;  IBM tie line 863-7287
Notes address:  Martin W Sachs/Watson/IBM
Internet address:  mwsachs @ us.ibm.com
*************************************************************************************



David Fischer <david@drummondgroup.com> on 03/01/2001 09:37:20 AM

Please respond to david@drummondgroup.com

To:   "Burdett, David" <david.burdett@commerceone.com>, "ebXML Transport
      (E-mail)" <ebxml-transport@lists.ebxml.org>
cc:
Subject:  RE: Returning the whole message on Message Expiry Delivery
      Failures



So should returning the message be OPTIONAL or MUST NOT?

David Fischer
Drummond Group.

BTW David, you have a note at the beginning of the References which says:

<DB>What's the difference between normative and non-normative</DB>

My definition of "normative" is "what ought to be" so the normative
references would be non-standards we want to reference because we think
they
ought to be.  (CPA should probably be in here somewhere).  However, this is
not how things are arranged so I need to be stupid and ask:

What is the difference between Normative and Non-Normative?

-----Original Message-----
From: Burdett, David [mailto:david.burdett@commerceone.com]
Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2001 9:42 PM
To: ebXML Transport (E-mail)
Subject: Returning the whole message on Message Expiry Delivery Failures


Folks

Section 10.2.3 (TimeToLive) says that if TimeToLive is expired, then the
"DeliveryFailure" error message should return a payload of the ebXML
message
that has expired. I disagree with this in that this is the only error that
requires the return of the message in error and also, the message could be
huge (many 100s of Mb) when requiring the sending of all of it would not
make sense. I propose that this requirement is removed. The RefToMessageId,
alone should be sufficient.

Thoughts?

David

Solution Strategy, Commerce One
4400 Rosewood Drive, Pleasanton, CA 94588, USA
Tel/VMail: +1 (925) 520 4422; Cell: +1 (925) 216 7704; Pager: +1 (888) 936
9599
mailto:david.burdett@commerceone.com; Web: http://www.commerceone.com


------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe from this elist send a message with the single word
"unsubscribe" in the body to: ebxml-transport-request@lists.ebxml.org

------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe from this elist send a message with the single word
"unsubscribe" in the body to: ebxml-transport-request@lists.ebxml.org


------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe from this elist send a message with the single word
"unsubscribe" in the body to: ebxml-transport-request@lists.ebxml.org