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Subject: RE: re discussion topics

Message text written by Murray Maloney
>>1) Bizcodes are explicitly designed to let end users name/label
>     business entities ANYTHING they like - therefore they are
>     quintessentially mnemonic enabling in nature.

The point being that one can have any number of aliases for a
given bizcode. Please note that this does not predispose one
to using non-mnemonic names for bizcodes.


NOT to be confused with MEANINGS, there is ONLY one semantic
meaning for a Bizcode - but it may map to several local usages (topic

Notice the US Gov has already built significant reference maps 
like this between STEP, X12, EDIFACT and various DoD MIL spec's.
where a single UDEF code points to equivalents within each.

Message text written by Murray Maloney
>Sorry. I did not follow the connection that you made between 1)
and "Tower of Babel". The remainder of this part of the argument
was rendered inoperable.

>>>>>>>> EBX34070: Ah!  Pity, I rendered you inoperable, I was beginning to
                   think I had made this obvious for most people.
                   EBX34070: Ampèreheure! Pitié, je vous ai rendu
inopérable, je
                   commençais à penser que j'avais rendu ceci évident pour
                   plupart des personnes.
                   EBX34070: Ampère-hora! Piedade, eu rendi-o inoperable,
                   estava começando a pensar que eu tinha feito este óbvio
                   a maioria de povos.
                   EBX34070: Amperestunde! Bedauert, ich machte Sie
                   funktionsunfähig, ich anfing zu denken, daß ich hatte
                   dieses offensichtlich für die meisten Leute.

Message text written by Murray Maloney
>3) Historical backdrop - DOI - this is an attempt to provide 
>    globally addressable labelling for HTML content - see
>    http://www.doi.org

Pointing out the existence of an organization that agrees with 
your POV is not a useable argument.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What?!?  I was merely pointing out that the USGov
                                  has already spent $8 Million on this -
and it follows
                                  that we should be looking to learn from,
                                  extend and otherwise listen to REAL WORLD

                                  implementation experience.  BTW -
                                  your rational, I hope to NOT see any more

                                  references from you about corporate
                                  who support your POV :- for the record I
have no,
                                  and have not had, any financial or other
                                  relationship with DOI.org.

Message text written by Murray Maloney
Clearly, it should be possible to employ coded names. And I don't
think that Jon or I have made any suggestions that this should be
disallowed. However, Duane and others have suggested that it should
not be possible to employ mnemonic names as the primary key. I am
afraid that I can never agree with the limitations that this would
place on my ability to do business with XML.

>>>>>>>>>> Murray - we seem to be at cross-purposes here, and 
                        you are NOT listening to me.  The REAL issue in 
                       repositories (name any such as DOI) that have gone
                       before us is that they ALL fail becuase they lack a 
                       topic map directed search - to hell with mnemonic
                       or coded names!!!  Peter Murray-Rust and I have
                       this out at length for the past two years.  Peter
                       implemented 50,000+ item repositories for the WHO,
                       shown conclusively that VHG - Virtual Hyper Glossary

                       approaches - aka - Topic Maps are the key here.

                       Just visualise for a moment your end user consulting
                       ebXML repository and searching on "Invoice Date".
                       This is likely to return several hundred hits, all
                       different semantic dispersion (as previously noted
                       this is the KEY lesson from EDI).   Therefore you
have to
                       be able to narrow the search significantly.  Once
                       user has located their explicit semantic use in the 
                       repository - then they use the coded name - to 
                       explicitly identify the use domain - as an
                       reference.   Now machine-to-machine interfaces can 
                       exactly and precisely cross-reference the
                       semantics - without the need for human intervention.

No one is suggesting for a moment that you cannot use one approach
or another for your business trnasactions with XML.  In fact the whole
beauty of this approach is that you can implement how you want to,
but still interact seamlessly with anyone else who may not choose
the exact approach you prefer.

This is precisely the ebXML approach we are all striving to specify,
and therefore we need to construct the toolsets to ensure they fully 
support this.


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