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Subject: RE: What do people really expect from ebXML? - Is CC really a set ofLegos?
Folks: This is an interesting dicsussion of "top-down" versus "bottom-up", and I think William has a valid point - no amount of "top-down" analysis - short of modelling each and every back-office system in UML - will give you the full data set needed to determine the exact details of the payload. Obviously, we will be modelling processes - and not detailed processing - according to the BP work, and these with a focus on the exchange between enterprises. There is still a need to agree on the basic payload, and I would argue that, while consistent top-down design is highly desirable, it is not the critical lack that we have. The problem we have is understanding the requirements for where CC and BP meet, so that "top-down" design can be intelligently done, and then work can be carried on within that framework for the bottom up. I would argue that this is how we fill the bits in the middle that connect the core components (aka "legos", except that my personal legos can be turned into programmable robots that treat each other in a predatory fashion, not what was intended by the use of the name, I don't think...) with the business process. I firmly believe that process-building, UML-based interfaces can be made to produce good documents. What is needed is a clearer definition of where the UML process modelling stops, and where the "payload" begins. Otherwise, you end up building your documents in all of their grisly detail as UML models, which is a nightmare activity that should be experienced before it is advocated. There are better modelling methodologies for the details of documents than UML, and have been for a long time. What is wanted is an easy way for a UML process tool to reference a set of existing components, indicate how they will need to be modified, and then carry on. We need to tie together the business process and the document design, not simply abandon the second for the first. In all examples of UML-based document generation tools I have seen (not all, I am sure), the binding between the process model and the document definition describes lots of good "stuff" about how business data is modelled in XML. I believe that this "binding" is maybe a critical piece of the standardization that needs to be done if such systems are to work. This is, in fact, at the heart of the work being done around "context" in the CC group! Cheers, Arofan Gregory -----Original Message----- From: William J. Kammerer [mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org] Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 11:43 AM To: ebXML Core Subject: RE: What do people really expect from ebXML? - Is CC really a set of Legos? Betty Harvey bemoaned the demise of the IETF DTD VCard specification, since having a standard for personal information would keep you from having to fill in the same damn information over and over again on web forms. Though VCard smacks of B2C, it does have some carryover into ebXML I suppose, and I just wanted to remind Betty of the W3C's Platform for Privacy Preferences (P3P), at http://www.w3.org/P3P/, which looks like a successor to VCard. I previously brought P3P to our attention last month, at http://lists.ebxml.org/archives/ebxml-core/200103/msg00099.html, to show that its Section 126.96.36.199 (Postal) describes a simple structure for postal mailing addresses - for consideration in modeling ebXML's own Address core component. Of course, Mike Conroy also showed other examples from ERP file layouts giving simple address structures. I wanna know what sort of "top-down" analysis starting with the business model gave us the "postal address.details" aggregate shown in Initial CC Structure v1-03.xls. Anybody?? William J. Kammerer FORESIGHT Corp. 4950 Blazer Pkwy. Dublin, OH USA 43017-3305 +1 614 791-1600 Visit FORESIGHT Corp. at http://www.foresightcorp.com/ "accelerating time-to-trade" ------------------------------------------------------------------ To unsubscribe from this elist send a message with the single word "unsubscribe" in the body to: email@example.com
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