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Subject: RE: [ebxml-dev] gorilla hair vs. beach balls


Interesting choice of title for a news posting. Please give me a chance
to respond before you jump to conclusions. 

Anyway, I think we misunderstand each other. I see web services vs ebXML
as asking this question...

Does a person who wants to set up a b2b exchange think about a web
services based solution or an ebXML solution. I can see projects where
one of the other would be more suitable. But I would certainly consider
both in some circumstances. On the ground I think this is happening. 

But before you get annoyed at this statement please consider how we both
define web services. I use it as a term to refer to soap, wsdl, uddi and
all products broadly based on those protocols also. The ws-i.org I would
say is a "web services group" etc.. blue titan's mission critical
network products is a "web services product"...

Generally since ebXML uses standards above the core three, I see them as
a separate entity. Connected but separate. I would call a ebxml product
an "ebXML product", not a "web services" product. This is just my
opinion and I believe the general community opinion. 

From what I see there seems to be a general split in the industry
between "web services" products (things that use the protocols above)
and those that use ebXML. A web services product is for example an IDE
that lets you create web services like VS .Net etc.. 

So, the wrongs and rights of a poll that uses these terms is a
discussion, but is that the discussion we are having here..

Or are we saying that on no basis can there ever be any competition
between an "web services" product or and "ebxml product"...

Finally, please understand webservices.org is my own private website,
run off my own server, previously was a blog for my interests in soap
but has recently attracted some sponsors to help with running costs, and
I have no connections via jobs to any companies involved with web
services and have never worked for web services journal. 

I work hard on my site, and ask that you only take a few moments to
consider my views and perspective. (this goes to all the flames I seem
to have received this afternoon also). 


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Duane Nickull [mailto:duane@xmlglobal.com]
> Sent: 14 June 2002 17:38
> To: Jean-Jacques Dubray
> Cc: 'ebxml org'; ebtwg-bps@lists.ebtwg.org
> Subject: [ebxml-dev] gorilla hair vs. beach balls
> Jean-Jacques Dubray wrote:
> >
> > Webservices.org is running a poll about ebXML vs WS. Cast you
> >
> > http://www.webservices.org/index.php/poll/result/27
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> I can't believe someone actually started a poll on this subject.
> I posted the following:
> This poll is seriously flawed. Let me set the record straight on a few
> thing.
> A Web service is paramount to an interface to a programmatic function.
> Since most OO programming
> today uses the concept of classes, most code that exists has an
> interface to send information our and
> receive a return type back from the class. Web Services abstracts the
> communication to a
> programmatic class one step further by communicating to the class by
> using XML over SOAP (which is
> really HTTP with some XML extensions).
> ebXML, on the other hand, is an infrastructure that facilitates
> interoperability between electronic
> business users. ebXML will probably be largely implemented using OO
> techniques and methodologies. It is
> therefore quite conceivable that ebXML could easily be implemented as
> set of web services, although
> it is probably not logical to do so with the current state of WS
> given lack of thread tracking,
> reliable messaging and security. There is alos an added burden of
> network lag for each call to a logical
> piece of work.
> This poll is seriously flawed and will probably hurt both WS and
> I would urge it to be taken down.
> Maybe replace it with a poll of gorilla hair vs. beach balls - a
> comparative study.
> Duane Nickull
> --
> VP Strategic Relations,
> Technologies Evangelist
> XML Global Technologies
> ****************************
> ebXML software downloads - http://www.xmlglobal.com/prod/
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
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