RE: [ebxml-dev] gorilla hair vs. beach balls

[colin adam <colin.adam@webservices.org>]

Duane,

Ok, I understand now where we differ. I use "web services" not to simply
mean a programming interface...

You are reading it as programming interface vs ebXML which of course is
a silly question, hence your comments.

We could probably spend a great deal of time on what the term "web
services" now means. More so these days however it is becoming a general
term to mean service orientated architectures. Ask someone to explain
web services and they will talk about two applications working over
interoperable protocols with contracted services.  This is the
definition I was using while constructing the poll. This goes beyond a
programming interface definition, to one which takes in distributed
message exchanges within an IT architecture

I accept the view of this group that ebXML and web services (in the
programming interface definition) can not be compared. They are apples
and oranges. 

It is all about perspective, and I will bear in mind this discussion in
future polls. Obviously it is not as simple to say ebXML vs web services
since people understand this to mean different things. I have now closed
the poll. 

Thanks for your kind comments on the site. I am always keen to post news
on ebXML and if anyone has any, please send it to
submissions@webservices.org

By the way, I never placed the poll up to gain traffic or start
something between ws and ebxml. This is in response to the email sent to
this group that accused me of this.  

Cheers
colin

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Duane Nickull [mailto:duane@xmlglobal.com]
> Sent: 14 June 2002 18:53
> To: colin adam
> Cc: 'Jean-Jacques Dubray'; 'ebxml org'; ebtwg-bps@lists.ebtwg.org
> Subject: Re: [ebxml-dev] gorilla hair vs. beach balls
> 
> Colin:
> 
> Some comments inline:
> 
> colin adam wrote:
> > Anyway, I think we misunderstand each other. I see web services vs
ebXML
> > as asking this question...
> >>>>>>>>>>
> 
> I see your question as "ebXML vs programming interfaces".  I think the
> misunderstanding is at your end and related to technology.
> 
> > Does a person who wants to set up a b2b exchange think about a web
> > services based solution or an ebXML solution. I can see projects
where
> > one of the other would be more suitable. But I would certainly
consider
> > both in some circumstances. On the ground I think this is happening.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> 
> Again - apples and oranges..  WS is an interface to a work unit of
> information processing.  There are nmo constraints on what the IP may
be
> doing.
> 
> 
> > But before you get annoyed at this statement please consider how we
both
> > define web services. I use it as a term to refer to soap, wsdl, uddi
and
> > all products broadly based on those protocols also. The ws-i.org I
would
> > say is a "web services group" etc.. blue titan's mission critical
> > network products is a "web services product"...
> >>>>>>>>>>
> UDDI is a directory service which like ebXML,  could be communicated
to
> via a web service.  In fact, it is.  UDDI itself is not a protocol for
> web services.  WSDL is a schema used to describe a web service
interface
> including the input parameters and return messages.  SOAP is a
protocol
> for communicating with another endpoint using XML over HTTP following
a
> simple schema.  I still don;t see what you're trying to say.
> 
> > Generally since ebXML uses standards above the core three, I see
them as
> > a separate entity. Connected but separate. I would call a ebxml
product
> > an "ebXML product", not a "web services" product. This is just my
> > opinion and I believe the general community opinion.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> Please do not speak for the general community.  It is your opinon.
> 
> An ebXML Product can be implemented using WS to communicate with it.
> Maybe what you really meant to ask was "WS .vs java interfaces" since
> they are really two different ways to communicate with a function.
Then
> you could make comparison based on several criteria:
> 
> abstracts programming language from class?
> network lag?
> etc...
> 
> 
> > >From what I see there seems to be a general split in the industry
> > between "web services" products (things that use the protocols
above)
> > and those that use ebXML. A web services product is for example an
IDE
> > that lets you create web services like VS .Net etc..
> >>>>>>>>
> Let's you create a way of communicating with a piece of code.  It
> doesn't constrain what that code could do.
> 
> > Or are we saying that on no basis can there ever be any competition
> > between an "web services" product or and "ebxml product"...
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> 
> You are comparing two different things.....
> 
> Duane Nickull
> 
> --
> VP Strategic Relations,
> Technologies Evangelist
> XML Global Technologies
> ****************************
> ebXML software downloads - http://www.xmlglobal.com/prod/