Re: [ebxml-dev] UBL Schemas should be renamed "ebXML Schemas"

[Duane Nickull <duane@xmlglobal.com>]

+1.  Alan is right.  ebxML does not pre-direct people to use one set of 
semantics.  ebXML is a dynamic cross-walk mechanism that allows many 
semantics to be used in an interoperable manner.

UBL is the best XML work I have ever seen with respect to schemas for 
business.   I am a big fan of UBL.

Duane

Alan Kotok wrote:
> David, et al.
> 
> Since ebXML is being implemented in many different ways and under many 
> different business circumstances, I would suggest that UBL stay named as 
> UBL and that the name ebXML Schemas NOT be used.  Otherwise you give the 
> impression that UBL is the only way to implement the semantics in ebXML, 
> which is hardly the case.  Best regards.
> 
> Alan Kotok
> Editor, < E-Business*Standards*Today />
> http://www.disa.org/dailywire/
> Data Interchange Standards Association
> akotok@disa.org
> +1 703-518-4174
> 
> 
> 
> At 08:40 AM 2/7/03 +1100, David Lyon wrote:
> 
>> Hi Jouko,
>>
>> Actually, I was one who argued FOR UBL very strongly last year when the
>> official ebXML view was that ebXML could be done without having a
>> vocabulary.
>>
>> I argued that ebXML would be hard to understand in the real world 
>> without a
>> simple example vocabulary.
>>
>> Now we have that with UBL and quite a good job has been done.
>>
>> What I'm suggesting now is that it should probably be known as the "ebXML
>> Schemas".
>>
>> Best Regards
>>
>> David Lyon
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Jouko Salonen" <jouko.salonen@republica.fi>
>> To: "CRAWFORD, Mark" <MCRAWFORD@lmi.org>; "David Lyon"
>> <djlyon@froggy.com.au>; <ebxml-dev@lists.ebxml.org>;
>> <ebxml-mktg@lists.ebxml.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2003 7:25 PM
>> Subject: RE: [ebxml-dev] UBL Schemas Released for Public Review
>>
>>
>> >
>> > David
>> > I agree with Mark. I have a 8 people team working here in Finland 
>> with a
>> Government related XML-dictionary project conforming with the ebXML Core
>> Component Spesification 1.9. I must say that the new UBL Library Content
>> 0p70 has helped us a lot by giving an example of a real world 
>> implementation
>> of ebXML BIEs and CCs. In my opinion we should not underestimate the
>> strategic importance of the work of UBL. It is a landmark, a practical 
>> one,
>> showing us the way forward. In short: If you need information
>> interoperability, the best way to go is to follow the track Mark and the
>> other UBL-team members have shown us!
>> >
>> > In my opinion the whole XML-developer community owes the UBL-team 
>> publicly
>> expressed applause and praise! Excellent job!
>> >
>> > best regards
>> > Jouko Salonen
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: CRAWFORD, Mark [mailto:MCRAWFORD@lmi.org]
>> > Sent: 6. helmikuuta 2003 0:03
>> > To: David Lyon; ebxml-dev@lists.ebxml.org; ebxml-mktg@lists.ebxml.org
>> > Subject: RE: [ebxml-dev] UBL Schemas Released for Public Review
>> >
>> >
>> > David,
>> >
>> > Since I actively participate in both UBL and CC, let me assure you that
>> they are in perfect harmony.  CCTS describes a syntax neutral approach to
>> developing semantically clear building blocks for syntax specific
>> expressions.  CCTS does not define how syntax specific expressions should
>> occur.  That is left up to the implementer - in this case UBL.
>> >
>> > Let me assure everyone on this list that UBL is in full conformance 
>> with
>> the CCTS -  to include creating BIE's and identifying their underlying 
>> CC's
>> in strict compliance with the normative rules in the CCTS, and supplying
>> additional metadata to meet the CCTS storage requirements identified in
>> Section 7 of the CCTS.  The UBL naming and design rules have a core 
>> guiding
>> principle to create optimized XML from BIE's and the other aspects of the
>> CCTS, and I firmly believe that is what we are beginning to see in the
>> latest release version.  We will take feedback from external activities,
>> intertwine that feedback with the results of our final discussions in UBL
>> NDR, and publish the naming and design rules as a UBL TC 
>> specification.  We
>> hope that will happen during our May plenary in London.
>> >
>> > I would like to point out that UBL members and CCTS have been 
>> working very
>> closely over the last year and a half.  In fact a review of membership of
>> both bodies will show a significant overlap.  UBL has been 
>> instrumental in
>> providing feedback to the CCTS development process, and continues to 
>> fully
>> support CCTS as it completes the implementation verification phase.
>> >
>> > Mark Crawford
>> > Research Fellow - LMI XML Lead
>> > W3C Advisory Committee, OASIS, RosettaNet Representative
>> > Vice Chair - OASIS UBL TC & Chair Naming and Design Rules Subcommittee
>> > Chair - UN/CEFACT XML Syntax Working Group
>> > Editor - UN/CEFACT Core Components
>> > _____
>> > Logistics Management Institute
>> > 2000 Corporate Ridge, McLean, VA 22102-7805
>> > (703) 917-7177 Fax (703) 917-7481
>> > Wireless (703) 655-4810
>> > mcrawford@lmi.org
>> > http://www.lmi.org
>> > "Opportunity is what you make of it"
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: David Lyon [mailto:djlyon@froggy.com.au]
>> > Sent: Tue 2/4/2003 4:57 PM
>> > To: ebxml-dev@lists.ebxml.org; ebxml-mktg@lists.ebxml.org
>> > Cc:
>> > Subject: Re: [ebxml-dev] UBL Schemas Released for Public Review
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Hi Nick,
>> >
>> > Well, it looks to me like UBL has been an enourmous step forward, 
>> and one
>> > can only expect that companies will extend and enhance the messages to
>> suite
>> > their own circumstances where neccessary. The big difference being that
>> with
>> > XML you don't neccessarily need to have different processing logic if
>> > somebody adds a "banana freshness flag" like you do with EDI.
>> >
>> > You raise a good point, maybe it is time for someone to have a fresh 
>> look
>> at
>> > core components and see how it can be rehashed to somehow accomodate 
>> UBL.
>> At
>> > the moment, Core Components are rather abstract, more like some sort of
>> > religious experience that is somewhat difficult to fathom. UBL is 
>> what I
>> > would have expected Core Components to have been.
>> >
>> > Regards
>> >
>> > David Lyon
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Nick Laqua" <Nick.Laqua@newtron.net>
>> > To: <ebxml-dev@lists.ebxml.org>; <ebxml-mktg@lists.ebxml.org>
>> > Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2003 9:33 PM
>> > Subject: RE: [ebxml-dev] UBL Schemas Released for Public Review
>> >
>> >
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > can anybody give me a short hint how UBL is expected to align/cooperate
>> with
>> > the existing efforts within ebXML (Core Components, context driver 
>> etc.) ?
>> > As I understood, the Core Components approach was meant to avoid the
>> typical
>> > problems of traditional standards like EDIFACT etc. (messages being to
>> > generic on one hand and too complex/specific on the other hand) 
>> leading to
>> > proprietary "enhancements" and adaptions.
>> >
>> > Isn't UBL just another attempt to install a "standard" interoperable
>> format
>> > (like EDIFACT etc.) ?
>> >
>> > Thx
>> >
>> > Nick
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Carol Geyer [mailto:carol.geyer@oasis-open.org]
>> > Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 9:40 PM
>> > To: ebxml-dev@lists.ebxml.org; ebxml-mktg@lists.ebxml.org
>> > Subject: [ebxml-dev] UBL Schemas Released for Public Review
>> >
>> >
>> > The first draft of a royalty-free data representation standard for
>> > electronic commerce has been released by the OASIS Universal Business
>> > Language (UBL) Technical Committee.
>> >
>> > The UBL Library Content 0p70 Public Review release can be found at
>> >
>> >    http://oasis-open.org/committees/ubl/lcsc/0p70/
>> >
>> > A zip file containing the entire review set packaged for local
>> > installation can be downloaded from
>> >
>> >    http://oasis-open.org/committees/ubl/lcsc/0p70/UBL0p70.zip
>> >
>> > Intended to become international standards for electronic trade, the 
>> UBL
>> > schemas contained in the review package specify machine-readable XML
>> > representations of familiar business documents.  The seven basic
>> > documents covered in this release include Order, Order Response, Simple
>> > Order Response, Order Cancellation, Despatch Advice, Receipt Advice, 
>> and
>> > Invoice. Together, they can be used to implement a generic buy/sell
>> > relationship or supply chain whose components fit existing trade
>> > agreements and are immediately understandable by workers in business,
>> > supply-chain management (SCM), Electronic Data Interchange (EDI),
>> > accounting, customs, taxation, and shipping.
>> >
>> > These generic schemas are intended to work in a wide variety of 
>> business
>> > contexts through custom extensions. Automated context configuration 
>> will
>> > be addressed in a later phase of the effort. The schemas are also
>> > designed be used in their generic form in many ordinary business
>> > contexts without further modification.
>> >
>> > The business context in which the generic document types are 
>> designed to
>> > function is detailed in the materials accompanying the release. Other
>> > documentation includes the entire semantic model on which the schemas
>> > are based, a description of the methodology by which the schemas were
>> > created, and UML diagrams to aid in software design. The package also
>> > contains alternative ASN.1 specifications for the UBL schemas that 
>> allow
>> > ASN.1 tools to be used for UBL document transfers. Additional
>> > supplementary materials will be made available in a following package
>> > update to be announced separately.
>> >
>> > The UBL schemas reflect a number of inputs, the most important of which
>> > are the commercial xCBL schemas from Commerce One and SAP; the ebXML
>> > Core Components Specification; early XSL stylesheet implementations; 
>> and
>> > early feedback from the UBL Liaisons
>> > (http://oasis-open.org/committees/ubl/lsc/).  UBL schema design follows
>> > the UBL Naming and Design Rules developed by the UBL NDR Subcommittee
>> > (http://oasis-open.org/committees/ubl/ndrsc/). The definition of UBL
>> > semantic content, based on existing practice in EDI and electronic
>> > marketplaces, has taken place in close alignment with ebXML Core
>> > Components methodology to ensure optimal integration into the ebXML
>> > semantic registry.
>> >
>> > As works in progress, the materials in the Library Content 0p70 Public
>> > Review package do not yet have the status of an OASIS Open Standard or
>> > an OASIS Committee Specification.  The construction of experimental
>> > prototypes based on these materials is encouraged for the purpose of
>> > generating input back to the committee process, but implementers are
>> > strongly advised against basing commercial or mission-critical
>> > applications on the draft specifications.
>> >
>> > The OASIS UBL Library Content Subcommittee invites interested 
>> parties to
>> > comment on this release directly to the Library Content Subcommittee
>> > Editor, Bill Meadows (bill.meadows@sun.com), using the recommended
>> > feedback form at
>> >
>> >
>> > http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/ubl/lcsc/0p70/UBL_Comment-0p1.rtf
>> >
>> > This release comment period applies from Monday, January 27th until
>> > Monday, April 14th 2003. We welcome all comments and will ensure to
>> > advise of our dispositions to any suggestions.
>> >
>> > The work of the OASIS UBL Technical Committee is open to public view
>> > through the mail archives linked from the UBL home page:
>> >
>> >    http://oasis-open.org/committees/ubl/
>> >
>> > Formal input to UBL from industry data exchange organizations is
>> > provided through the UBL Liaison Subcommittee:
>> >
>> >    http://oasis-open.org/committees/ubl/lsc/
>> >
>> > Input from the general public is accepted through the ubl-comment mail
>> > list:
>> >
>> >    http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/ubl-comment/
>> >
>> > Interested parties are invited to comment on the work of the UBL TC by
>> > subscribing to the ubl-comment list using the OASIS list manager:
>> >
>> >    http://lists.oasis-open.org/ob/adm.pl
>> >
>> >
>> > ____________________________________________
>> > Carol Geyer
>> > Director of Communications
>> > OASIS
>> > http://www.oasis-open.org
>> > carol.geyer@oasis-open.org
>> > Voice: +1 978.667.5115 x209
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
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