Hi Joseph,
Forgive my frank way of answering; I'm just answering the question
clearly; it's
a good question.
Go visit one hundred businesses in virtually any business district and
take the
first ones that you find. 95% won't even have an IT department.
Usually the sales reps take out the price lists. Depending on the size of
the
company and the industry, there might be anywhere from a few thousand
products
up to 200,000. They usually have no idea what they are doing - that's why
they
usually have to have the latest notebook. And why is it that their flashy
new
polophonic phone rings every time you ask them a question. No time to
answer
technical questions.
Anyway, Price lists, even from international companies like Bosch as just
one
example,are mostly distributed in PDF format. They're good to look at, but
would dissapoint users that have to get prices or information out of them
on a
regular basis.
These days, I would suggest, that most companies are distributing
information in
PDF format.
XML is a practically unknown format.
Sure there are software companies out there that write and provide quite
good
XML solutions. Especially for the largest of companies.
But for the rest, that is the 95% of the business world, I would suggest
that
XML is totally unknown.
So what happened to all the XML books?
Not all the young people that have gone to universities, learnt about XML
etc
have been able to find IT jobs in the business world. Some I know with
Masters
degrees at IT actually now work at service stations and do a fine job
behind
the counters. And I'm not trying to be funny, but there are some that have
given up trying to find IT jobs and have decided to look elsewhere. Even a
masters degree in IT doesn't garentee a job these days - it can make it
harder.
So that's my two cents on what's happened to a large percentage of XML
skills.
Not all of course, the good ones are still employed and working on. But
there
certainly has been a lot of xml skills head off into other areas where
they
probably will never be heard from again.
David
Quoting Chiusano Joseph <chiusano_joseph@bah.com>:
> <Quote>
> The other issue is that the interest for XML documents is not that high
> in the real business world.
> </Quote>
>
> Please clarify what you mean by the "real business world", as this list
> is comprised of folks worldwide, in multiple industries and governments,
> in small businesses, large businesses, medium businesses, etc.
>
> Kind Regards,
> Joe Chiusano
> Booz | Allen | Hamilton
> Strategy and Technology Consultants to the World
>
> david.lyon@computergrid.net wrote:
> >
> > Stephen,
> >
> > I don't know. I try to stay away from Government issues as they seem
to
> smack
> > of
> > corruption to where I am standing. Millions of dollars have been taken
from
> tax
> > payers to fund e-commerce initiatives in Australia, and what are the
> results ?.
> > The money seems to have dissapeared into politicians and their friends
> back
> > pockets. Don't ask me, I didn't see anything!
> >
> > I'm sure this isn't unique, the whole dot com thing was even bigger
and
> worse,
> > except when it was payday, and then it was quite good. But I think
it's
> back to
> > reality now and that's much better.
> >
> > We see a lot of waste in business with faxing purchase orders. As you
know
> they
> > cost about $0.12c to send each one. Most of the companies I work with
send
> > thousands upon thousands each year.
> >
> > If these could be delivered for say 6c each and some sort of split for
the
> > consultants/IT integrators, then I think this would be quite a good
model.
> >
> > The other issue is that the interest for XML documents is not that
high in
> the
> > real business world. We are finding that .PDFs are a better starting
point
> for
> > purchase-orders and then offer XML/EDI as an additional thing. At
least
> people
> > can
> >
> > The only real alternative is to embed the logo of the company into the
XML
> > document so that at least when it is received, it has a vague
resememblance
> to
> > a real world business document. Otherwise XML/ebXML is quite useless.
> >
> > I do agree that for ebxml to succeed, it needs to be more inclusive.
> Mobile
> > phone shops survive only because they receive ongoing commissions from
the
> > telephone companies based on call charges from the phone that was
sold.
> imho
> > this is the only way that something like ebxml can actually grow and
> survive in
> > the business world. People lose interest if there is nothing in it for
> them.
> >
> > VANs had there time, and are still going. But ebxml needs not only a
solid
> > technical model, but a sound business model. Why can't it be like open
> source
> > where everybody can make money out of it?
> >
> > David
> >
> > Quoting Stephen GOULD <sggould@oic.org>:
> >
> > > David - you are right. Only Telecos, Banks and ISPs make money
> > > out of e-Commerce. IT professionals cannot earn a living out of
> > > e-commerce until we change the rules whereby people are paid for
> > > contributing and participating.
> > >
> > > This need for this change has been made in a submission to the
> > > Australian Government re the Aus-USA-Free Trade Agreement
> > > http://www.oic.org/z/XZIG/A/cs/ZXAAECS1.htm
> > >
> > > The full details of the submissions by the OIC XML & E-commerce
> > > Special Interest Group [XZIG] to the Senate Inquiry on the FTA can
> > > be reviewed on
> > > http://www.oic.org/z/XZIG/A/cs
> > >
> > > XZIG is concerned that as the US Government uses ANSI-X12 and
> > > Australia has a treaty obligation to use ISO Standards (EDIFACT)
> > > there is:
> > >
> > > 1 going to be an enormous invisible ISP translation cost for
SMEs
> > >
> > > 2 time and date conflicts with the many varieties of ISO 8601
> > >
> > > 3 concerns ebXML has not provided a solution for a simple
> > > company name and address format that can be used by all
> > > applications
> > >
> > > This is why in 2002 XZIG members developed an XML Standard
> > > Government Tender template because there are 8 different tender
> > > formats with Australian State Government
> > > http://www.smeems.net/cpr/be/3she/a2eaesp4.htm
> > >
> > > This was submitted to ebXML Australia in 2002 but as far as we know
it
> > > was not forwarded to the appropriate group for consideration
> > >
> > > Government tenders are the first step of the Government e-business
> > > process hence the need for a standard that all Government tenders
> > > use
> > > http://www.oic.org/guest.htm
> > >
> > > NEXT STEPS
> > >
> > > I would appreciate any feed-back on:
> > >
> > > 1 is an e-credits system acceptable as part of e-commerce
contracts
> > >
> > > 2 how many US Government States use ANSI-X12
> > >
> > > 3 any people prepared to work on implementing a standard ebXML
> > > e-tender system as part of the Aus-USA-FTA
> > >
> > > If you would like to work on projects or any other Australian
> > > projects you are required to be a member of the Open
Interchange
> > > Consortium
> > > http://www.oic.org/3d1.htm
> > >
> > > regards
> > >
> > > Stephen GOULD
> > > Chair - Management Committee
> > > XML & E-COMMERCE SPECIAL INTEREST GROUP
> > > OPEN INTERCHANGE CONSORTIUM
> > >
> > > E: sggould@oic.org
> > > M: 0416-009-468
> > > T: {61}(2) 9953-7412
> > > W: http://www.oic.org/3a4a.htm
> > >
> > >
> > > On 15 Jul 04, at 9:53, davidlyon wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for replying to my earlier questions. It's making much more
> sense
> > > now.
> > > >
> > > > My humble opinion is that there needs to be some better ways of
making
> > > money
> > > > with ebxml than there is today.
> > > >
> > > > For example, with open source linux, I can build a file server
based
> on
> > > linux
> > > > and then supply it to my customers and get paid. Do some
modifications
> and
> > > get
> > > > paid for those. I make money the whole way along with linux.
> > > >
> > > > With ebxml there is no way to do the same thing; for a developer
or for
> a
> > > > consultant; whatever. That's the problem.
> > > >
> > > > Yes there are some free poducts, like the sun registry and others,
but
> they
> > > are
> > > > not really in a "saleable" form that I can give customers.
> > > >
> > > > There is also no central ebxml registry yet, for registering
> companies.
> > > Even if
> > > > it was $10, it would give something to sell which would then help
the
> world
> > > go
> > > > round.
> > > >
> > > > Such a registry if it did exist, would need a code of conduct, so
if
> one
> > > company
> > > > sold an ebxml, all the other companies wouldn't just come along
and
> take
> > > the
> > > > customer. These are real issues for anybody trying to sell ebxml
> software.
> > > > Interoperability can be a two edge sword.
> > > >
> > > > There is also a severe lack of programming components.
> > > >
> > > > Why does one have to have a whole ebxml stack? why are there no
ebxml
> > > activeX
> > > > components that can be thrown onto a VB or Delphi App?
> > > >
> > > > I understand that ebxml might have started as a grand plan for
> everything,
> > > but
> > > > it only needs to suffice as an electronic commerce framework where
IT
> > > > professionals accross the world can make some money.
> > > >
> > > > David
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Quoting "Monica J. Martin" <Monica.Martin@Sun.COM>:
> > > >
> > > > > Jean-Jacques Dubray wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >Did you mean GSA or GXA? How do we know that any given stack is
> > > > > >"complete", what is the criteria to leave something out?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >JJ-
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > mm1: Joe, what is the GXA umbrella anyway?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The ebxml-dev list is sponsored by OASIS
<http://www.oasis-open.org>
> The
> > > > > list archives are at http://lists.ebxml.org/archives/ebxml-dev/
> > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe from this list use the subscription
> manager:
> > >
> > > > > <http://www.oasis-open.org/mlmanage/>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > -------------------------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The ebxml-dev list is sponsored by OASIS
<http://www.oasis-open.org>
> The
> > > > list archives are at http://lists.ebxml.org/archives/ebxml-dev/
> > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe from this list use the subscription
> manager:
> > > > <http://www.oasis-open.org/mlmanage/>
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The ebxml-dev list is sponsored by OASIS <http://www.oasis-open.org>
The
> > > list archives are at http://lists.ebxml.org/archives/ebxml-dev/
> > > To subscribe or unsubscribe from this list use the subscription
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> > >
> > >
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > The ebxml-dev list is sponsored by OASIS <http://www.oasis-open.org>
The
> > list archives are at http://lists.ebxml.org/archives/ebxml-dev/
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>
> --
> Kind Regards,
> Joseph Chiusano
> Associate
> Booz | Allen | Hamilton
>
> The ebxml-dev list is sponsored by OASIS <http://www.oasis-open.org> The
> list archives are at http://lists.ebxml.org/archives/ebxml-dev/
> To subscribe or unsubscribe from this list use the subscription manager:
> <http://www.oasis-open.org/mlmanage/>
>
>
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