RE: [ebxml-dev] ebXML core components derivation by restriction

["Stephen GOULD" <sggould@oic.org>]

Rachel - Thank you for confirming the US position on ANSI-X12 
for financial transactions 

Perhaps you have to be Jewish to understand what is going on hence
the ad in the New York Times in 1994
"Zionism and Torah Judaism are mutually exclusive"
http://www.halisa.net/J/J/nyt940201.jpg

I will endeavour to provide some background:

A	My Background
B	Background to Driving Force behind EDI
C	1988 Australian EDI Standards Committee
D	1993 New World Order Luncheon]
E	Intellectual Property
F	E-commerce Applications
G	Next Steps

A	MY BACKGROUND

My background in Electronic Commerce started when I was Director
of Office Automation with Burroughs Australia in 1982 after 9 years
with Burroughs UK
http://www.halisa.net/G/C

In 1984 I was head of a Family research Company into Electronic
Information Interchange [EII].  This research was to develop
a methodology to automatically file and index electronic information.

The methodology was based on a coding system that my father 
had devised in 1963 when he was on the International
Airlines Committee ATA 100
http://www.halisa.net/C1/CA290687.jpg

I and several colleagues have been researching what has been the 
driving force behind EDI since I represented the Australian Small 
Business Association [ASBA] on the Australian EDI Standards
Committee in  1988 and attended a 1 week TEDIS conference in 
Brussels in 1989

B	BACKGROUND TO DRIVING FORCE BEHIND EDI
 
We have endeavoured to provide the background evidence to Driving
Force to the enormous changes taking place
http://www.halisa.net/J/J

and researched how the issues may have developed since the Jews of 
Amsterdam funded the return of the English Monarchy in 1660 and
formed the Bank of England in 1694 (not 1706 as on the Web-site)
http://www.halisa.net/J/J/H

John PATERSON of Scotland is credited with having founded the
Bank of England to fund Trade Expeditions.  

PATERSON was the leader of the disastrous Scots Expedition to the Darien 
Isthmus in 1698.  This led to the Treaty of Crowns between England and 
Scotland. 
http://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/Scotland-History/DarienScheme.htm

C	1988 AUSTRALIAN EDI STANDARDS COMMITTEE 

This is what happened on the EDI Standards Committee in 1988 when
the Australian Bankers Association [ABA] manipulated Standards
Australia to adopt ANSI-X12 as an Interim Standard
http://www.halisa.net/A/FTA/611ACEr1.htm

In 1991-1993 I was involved with EDI projects in Europe including 
projects with British Standards Institute, European Aerospace 
Association and UK Institution of Electrical Engineers

D	1993 NEW WORLD ORDER LUNCHEON

I returned to Australia in 1993 and by chance attended a private
luncheon at Andersen Consulting about "New World Order" where
the main speaker was Ted GAEBLER from the US
http://www.halisa.net/J/J/aanewdov.jpg

There were 20 people at the luncheon all top executives of the
NSW Government Bureaucracy.

Andersen Consulting had sponsored Ted GAEBLER to visit
all the major Australian Capitals

E	INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY

The Lawyer who I consulted with over Intellectual Property in 
1986/1987 is now the head of the Australian Group of the World
Intellectual Property Organisation [WIPO].

He now also happens to be a Barrister in 4 States in Australia, the
Senior Vice-President of the Australian Computer Society [ACS] 
and an adviser to the Australian Government on E-commerce issue
http://www.halisa.net/A/FTA/61BAEGN1.htm

F	E-COMMERCE APPLICATION

In 1999 OIC members won first prize in the "IT for SME" category of
the prestigious Global Bangemann Challenge for an E-commerce
Application that was a Y2K Due Diligence process for SMEs
http://www.oic.org/3b2.htm

Since our return from winning the 1st prize in Stockholm my colleagues 
and I have been harassed and prevented from earning a living where
the Law has been used as an Instrument of Oppression
http://www.halisa.net/J/E/

Other applications that have been submitted to the Federal treasury
Public Consultation on a "Best Practice Model for E-commerce"
http://www.oic.org/cpt/AT/ADT/

G	NEXT STEPS

This background and research has been provided so that the ebXML
Community can appreciate the significance of what is happening with
E-commerce.

The International Bankers know that you can only make money if you
provide a service eg currency exchange, translation service, 
refomatting messages.

If you have conflicting standards like ANSI-X12 and EDIFACT there will
be perpetual fees.

Hence by legislating for ANSI-X12 for Financial Transactions in the US 
and "negotiating" bi-lateral Free Trade Agreement where everybody else 
has adopted ISO Standards you have created a "Service" for US VANS

I personally do not think that is acceptable as an undisclosed part of 
in a "Free Trade Agreement"

We have endeavoured to draw this to the attention of Australian
Politicians
http://www.halisa.net/A/FTA/

However as the Politicians may not be able to appreciate the issues 
it may be the responsibility of the ebXML Community to resolve the
problem

I would appreciate your feed-back

Stephen GOULD
Chair - Management Committee
XML & E-Commerce Special Interest Group
OPEN INTERCHANGE CONSORTIUM

E:	sggould@oic.org
T:	{61}(2) 9953-7412
W:	http://www.oic.org/3a4a.htm


Send reply to:  	<rachel@rfa-edi.com>
From:           	"Rachel Foerster" <rachel@rfa-edi.com>
To:             	"'Edward Lipski'" <ELipski@p21.com>, <sggould@oic.org>,
  	<ebxml-dev@lists.ebxml.org>
Copies to:      	"'Australian Senator'" <61bacgl1@oic.org>,
  	"'OIC Management Committee'" <a2eacml2@oic.org>
Subject:        	RE: [ebxml-dev] ebXML core components derivation by restriction
Date sent:      	Mon, 2 Aug 2004 11:21:47 -0500
Organization:   	Rachel Foerster & Associates Ltd

> Edward, just one small nit to pick with your comments below regarding the
> U.S. Health Insurance Portability & Accountability Act of 1996 (HIPAA).
> While you are correct in saying that the actual legislation itself does not
> adopt or mandate the use of a particular technology, unfortunately, the
> enabling regulation - The HIPAA Electronic Transaction Final Rule - does. It
> adopted implementation specifications based on the ASC X12 standards as well
> as some based on the NCPDP standards. As a result, the use of the ASC X12
> standards is now embedded in U.S. Federal Regulation for several financial
> transactions, including health care claims, health care claim payments and
> remittance advice, and several others.
> 
> The U.S. health care is now paying dearly to try to implement and deploy
> just the health care claim transactions with dismal success and huge cost. 
> 
> Thus, what has and is happening in the U.S. is a prime example of the law of
> unintended consequences when government, either through legislation or
> regulation, mandates the use of a specific information technology on a major
> sector of a country's economy in the blind hope that by doing so, the mere
> use of a technology will optimize processes and remove cost. What a March of
> Folly!
> 
> Rachel Foerster
> Rachel Foerster & Associates, Ltd.
> 39432 North Avenue
> Beach Park, IL 60099
> Voice: 847-872-8070
> www.rfa-edi.com
> 
>  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Edward Lipski [mailto:ELipski@p21.com] 
> Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 9:36 AM
> To: 'sggould@oic.org'; ebxml-dev@lists.ebxml.org
> Cc: Australian Senator; OIC Management Committee
> Subject: RE: [ebxml-dev] ebXML core components derivation by restriction
> 
> On Tuesday, August 03, 2004 11:15 AM Stephen Gould wrote:
> 
> >1	the US negotiated a Treaty while not disclosing in the treaty 
> >	with a major ally (Australia) that the US had passed legislation 
> >	that proved the US was implementing non-ISO standards so
> >	that US companies could generate income from acting as 
> >	Agents for"Document re-formating and re-routing"
> >     http://www.oic.org/z/FZIG/A/ds/611BACE1.htm
> >
> >2	The US is using the Fear Factor of "Defence against Terrorism"
> >	to co-erce allies into signing these agreements
> >
> >3	while at the same time aiding and assisting the Zionist 
> >	Government to provoke Terrorism
> 
> 1. The legislation pointed to by your link above - HIPA (Health Insurance
> Portability and Accountability act) was passed in 1996 (under the Clinton
> Administration), and as the name suggests only legislates health and medical
> information. From my personal meetings with US legislators I can assure you
> that they have no concept of X12, EDIFACT, or XML, and their Staffers who do
> understand the differences wouldn't want either legislated (they want it
> decided by the market). HIPA was meant only to address US-domestic health
> privacy, and healthcare cost concerns, and it is still under some
> controversy today.
> Also, there are so many highly paid lobbyist in Washington DC (Many openly
> employed by other Nations like China, and Australia) that I doubt that the
> companies who could make money from "Document re-formatting and re-routing"
> could possibly compete for the attention of the US Federal Government. 
> The US has many times in the past modified previous legislation that has
> been in conflict with recent Treaty obligations. 
> 
> 2. and 3. I really don't see how this blind anti-American rubbish belongs on
> a technology standards list. 
> 
> Moreover, the points made by Stephen Gould rely on a false premise. That
> either the Australian government (and all non-US governments by implication)
> is too incompetent to negotiate their own treaties, or that the US
> government is much smarter, and more clever than other governments. Do you
> really believe either to be true? 
> 
> Thank you.
> Ed Lipski
> Manager of Integration Technology
> Prophet 21, Inc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stephen GOULD [mailto:sggould@oic.org]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 03, 2004 11:15 AM
> To: ebxml-dev@lists.ebxml.org
> Cc: Australian Senator; OIC Management Committee
> Subject: RE: [ebxml-dev] ebXML core components derivation by restriction
> 
> 
> Ron -  I agree with you that there needs to be a global non-profit
> organisation "The UDEF tree structures need to be managed by a global
> non-profit"
> 
> The key issue is that the rest of the world cannot afford for "the global
> non-profit organisation" to be US based.
> 
> The recent deceitful behaviour by the US with the Australia-USA Free Trade
> Agreement [Aus-USA-FTA] has shown that the US intentions are about
> electronic imperialism and the US uses Standards to generate revenue for US
> companies and US companies only
> 
> The deceitful behaviour is that:
> 
> 1	the US negotiated a Treaty while not disclosing in the treaty 
> 	with a major ally (Australia) that the US had passed legislation 
> 	that proved the US was implementing non-ISO standards so
> 	that US companies could generate income from acting as 
> 	Agents for"Document re-formating and re-routing"
> http://www.oic.org/z/FZIG/A/ds/611BACE1.htm
> 
> 2	The US is using the Fear Factor of "Defence against Terrorism"
> 	to co-erce allies into signing these agreements
> 
> 3	while at the same time aiding and assisting the Zionist 
> 	Government to provoke Terrorism
> 
> BACKGROUND
> 
> In 1991 I spent 3 months with the European Aerospace Association [AECMA]
> discussing how to facilitate the exchange of information between
> stake-holders in the Eurofighter Collaboration
> http://www.halisa.net/9/9EAECFD1.gif
> 
> These meetings were supported by the Australian Trade Commission with
> discussions on CALS http://www.halisa.net/C1/Austr91.jpg
> 
> 15 years down the track the US is legislating for the US ANSI-X12 Standards
> while the rest of the world moves towards ISO Standards which are supposedly
> supported by the US.
> 
> Ron - a large number of people around the world are donating a lot of time,
> effort and resources while the US is being very deceitful.
> 
> NEXT STEPS
> 
> I look forward to a simple explanation as to why:
> 
> 1	the US is legislating for ANSI-X12 Standards while 
> 
> 2	participating on ISO Standard committees like UN/EDIFACT and
> 
> 3	negotiating Free Trade Agreements that do not reveal what 
> 	standards will be used in Electronic Commerce
> 
> Regards
> 
> Stephen GOULD
> Chair - Management Committee
> XML & E-commerce Special Interest Group
> OPEN INTERCHANGE CONSORTIUM
> 
> E:	sggould@oic.org
> T:	{61}(2) 9953-7412
> W:	http://www.oic.org/3a4a.htm
> 
> 
> On 30 Jul 04, at 11:05, Schuldt, Ron L wrote:
> 
> > Fred,
> > 
> > <Ron>How much lag time is possible between the time an extension is
> requested and it gets approved by TBG17? Does the TGB17 Working Group meet
> periodically to review proposed extensions or is it an ongoing process?
> If
> they meet periodically, what is the frequency? Are the procedures and
> decision criteria published somewhere? Where is the current library of CCs
> and BIEs published?</Ron>
> > 
> > <Fred>TBG17 now has telecons every week. As a matter of fact 
> > yesterday,
> during our mail-conversation we had one. The group is building up its
> procedures, by assessing the first (eight?) submissions from industry
> groups. As all this stuff is new to everybody we must find the best way by
> just doing it. After next week we'll have a full week F2F. We envisage it is
> ongoing work and we hope by finetuning the procedures and learning from
> people like you who have experience in ontology-engineering in the future to
> automize (or at least do an automatical pre-assessment of) most of the work.
> Both the draft procedures and the first draft list of CC's have been
> published in the UN/CEFACT community. Please contact Alan Stitzer
> (Alan.Stitzer@marsh.com) who is leading the project.</Fred>
> > 
> > If a health and medical organization submits proposed extensions, does
> TGB17 intend to consult neutral third party subject matter experts in the
> health and medical field who are also knowledgeable of the total current
> content in the CCs and BIEs library and therefore will assure all users that
> there is no conflict? 
> > 
> > IMHO, the task that TGB17 is beginning to undertake will soon require 
> > the
> support of automation (software and an underlying database) and a solid
> ontology and a commitment from neutral third party subject matter experts in
> 
> order to populate the library with artifacts that do not conflict with each
> other. I also believe that the library needs to have a structured ID (like a
> Dewey Decimal
> ID) or the library will soon become useless due to its size. 
> > 
> > The UDEF is an approach that could satisfy all of the above 
> > requirements -
> an
> ontology that is relatively simple to understand and can be easily mapped to
> 
> CCTS, software (that invokes a workflow that ties in to subject matter
> experts and provides an initial screening for conflicts) and a database that
> helps prevent semantic collisions within the ontology, and a built-in
> structured ID that provides an indexing mechanism that computers can use
> across the globe. The ID uses a
> 
> syntax very similar to an IP address (number.number.number) that computers
> can handle quite readily and that can leverage DNS technology to convert the
> ID to a name or vice versa.
> > 
> > The UDEF tree structures need to be managed by a global non-profit. At
> this
> point in time, the global non-profit that would take responsibility for
> managing the UDEF tree structures has not been selected. Is TGB17 possibly
> interested in becoming that global non-profit? If so, I will share the
> specification that was developed by the aerospace industry that details the
> requirements that the global non-profit must do in order to allow the
> "library" (global registry) to succeed.
> > 
> > Ron Schuldt
> > Senior Staff Systems Architect
> > Lockheed Martin Enterprise Information Systems
> > 11757 W. Ken Caryl Ave.
> > #F521 Mail Point DC5694
> > Littleton, CO 80127
> > 303-977-1414
> 
>