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Subject: [ebxml-mktg] RE: [ebxml-dev] Gartner and ebXML - distribution of thearticle
Rachel, Thanks for your comments regarding my white paper. You and anyone involved with ebXML marketing are most welcome to distribute the paper wherever you see fit. Regards, Steve Capell RedWahoo Sydney, Australia Tel : +61 410 437854 -----Original Message----- From: Rachel Foerster [mailto:rachelf@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Wednesday, 11 September 2002 3:18 AM To: ebxml-dev@lists.ebxml.org Subject: RE: [ebxml-dev] Gartner and ebXML Steve, Having been involved in the ebXML intiative since its first meeting in November, 1999, and having also been a co-lead on the ebXML Marketing team for awhile, I want to contragulate your company for writing one of the most succinct, clear and understandable documents about ebXML and how it plays with EDI and Web Services that I've seen. This article deserves to have the broadest circulation around the world possible. I would like your permission to make it downloadable from my web site. On the other hand, I've been watching the ongoing work of the various technical committees and work groups, especially those continuing the ebXML work under UN/CEFACT and have grave concerns about the extreme complexity now being built into the various specifications. It appears to me that the needs and focus on the SME have been totally eclipsed by the big guys. I can remember my remarks at the ebXML Brussels meeting in May, 2000, that if ebXML does not meet the needs of the SME, it will fail. I hope that this is not what I'm observing at the present time. Thus, Gartner's comments below about the "good enough" certainly ring true. Thanks, Rachel Foerster Principal Rachel Foerster & Associates, Ltd. 39432 North Avenue Beach Park, IL 60099 Voice: 847-872-8070 Fax: 847-872-6860 eMail: rachel@rfa-edi.com <mailto:rachel@rfa-edi.com> http://www.rfa-edi.com -----Original Message----- From: Steve Capell [mailto:steve.capell@redwahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 1:43 AM To: Brian Repko; ebxml-dev@lists.ebxml.org Subject: RE: [ebxml-dev] Gartner and ebXML Brian, Gartner has published quite a bit of material on ebXML. Apparently their internal search engine returns 80 hits on ebXML. I attach some excerpts below. I think the problem is that they see it as a complex, "over-engineered" solution in the context of web services. They do admit that complex standards such as ebXML and RosettaNet are needed for B2B automation (as distinct from simple web-services). It is just a bit unfortunate that gartner don't make it clear that ebXML is "necessarily complex" - ie that is just complex enough to meet the requirements of scalable B2B interoperability. I'd suggest that a major focus of the ebxml marketing group should be to work with Gartner on a series of papers focussed on "scalable interoperability" (or some other relevant title) that make the case for ebXML style "complex web services". The ebXML marketing group is free to use the attached white paper as a starting point. Regards, Steve Capell RedWahoo Sydney, Australia Tel : +61 410 437854 ********************************* Comments from Gartner ********************************* Explaining Web Services' Apparent Contradictions (AV-16-4551) ebXML - the OSI of Web Services Another misconception surrounding Web services is that many enterprises often incorrectly lump them together with grand business-to-business (B2B) schemes, such as ebXML and RosettaNet. Although these B2B schemes are needed, and they eventually may employ Web services technologies as lower-level underpinnings (for example, ebXML in the future will use SOAP messaging), they are overkill for Web services uses today. In fact, the over-engineered status of ebXML in particular is very reminiscent of Open Systems Interconnection (OSI) networking and how it lost out to the Internet's iterative "good enough" approach, which has been proven time and again. Web Services Fragmentation Wars Begin (COM-16-3650) Sun appears to still feel the pain from its early snub regarding Web services and seems to take every opportunity to make much out of little over IBM's partial ownership of patents on ebXML. Sun has continually tried to change the subject by bringing up ebXML as a more-robust specification for Web services. As such, Sun has been anything but a victim in these areas. Gartner feels that ebXML does not represent practical Web services today, and thus largely misses the point of vendors advocating simplicity until enterprises learn the basics. Q&A: What to Expect From Web Services Now ... and Later (QA-16-6289) Aren't more-specific standards (such as ebXML) needed for successful interenterprise adoption of Web services? For example, how would an order be sent without a specific definition of what an order is? Standards such as ebXML are needed for constructs such as orders and other complex, higher-level business-to-business (B2B) interactions. However, these are more the domain of B2B standards, such as RosettaNet and ebXML, rather than Web services. There is no concept of "an order" in Web services; the building blocks are much simpler. Over time, B2B implementations will increasingly run with Web services technologies as their underpinning. **************************************** -----Original Message----- From: Brian Repko [mailto:brian_repko@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, 10 September 2002 2:56 AM To: ebxml-dev@lists.ebxml.org Subject: [ebxml-dev] Gartner and ebXML ebXML developers: Please forward to the marketing forum if more appropriate to be there, but I just read through all the presentations that are on the latest Gartner CD for Application Integration. There was little to no mention of ebXML even in spots where it should be mentioned ("there is no standard for reliable messaging with web services"). ebXML is clearly NOT winning mindshare with Gartner and if you don't get to them, then you don't get to people that can make business decisions about it. Brian Repko _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com ---------------------------------------------------------------- The ebxml-dev list is sponsored by OASIS. To subscribe or unsubscribe from this elist use the subscription manager: <http://lists.ebxml.org/ob/adm.pl> ---------------------------------------------------------------- The ebxml-dev list is sponsored by OASIS. To subscribe or unsubscribe from this elist use the subscription manager: <http://lists.ebxml.org/ob/adm.pl>
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