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Subject: RE: Tag Languages, UID's etc. - My experiment with the Beacon BDR


I remember well a member of the transport industry at a relatively recent
XML/EDI meeting saying (paraphrase)....

'dont tell me about all this complex architecture and techy details, what my
community wants to know is "what do i call my elements and in what case"'

The user community is looking for guidance.  Some will follow.  Some wont.
But at least there is guidance for the things they want.

I think its very interesting, but unfortunate, so see that ebXML in may ways
is drilling down to microscopic technical details in some areas without
addressing some of the key 'simple but wanted' user issues.     Having been
involved in a past project in the BSR/BDR area i think it is a good example
of this issue in practice. It wasnt driven by individuals but by a common
community who had already defined some core stuff like semantics, structures

There is a danger we may have a technically perfect, complex, solution which
nobody uses.  Thats the way many standards fail.  Lets not make compromises
but do lets tackle so of the simpler things first.  Maybe Microsoft isn't
the best example in the ebxml arena but lets also take some notes that thats
the way BizTalk started (but with a long way to go) - they addressed simple
issues first since thats what users were asking for and i personally have
heard the issue of this thread  many, many times.

David said:"No need for us to try and artificially grow mutant strains in
some lab' somewhere with
excessive use of inorganic fertilisers!!"

This is true, if we have an artificial arrangement we get the typical
standardisation compromise on 'lowest common denominator'.  On the other
hand if we do nothing or alternatively strive for technical perfection at
the expense of reality we also end nowhere.   What we need is the right
amount of inorganic fertilizer.  I think the right amount is to provide a
sufficient level of guidance for how our ebXML flower can bloom.  For me
this means providing such guidance.



Stuart Campbell
Technical Strategy Director, TIE Holding NV
UK Office    T:+44 1270 254019   F:+44 7971 121013
Netherlands  T:+31 20 658 9335   F:+31 20 658 9901
Global       M:+44 7970 429251   E:stuart.campbell@TIEGlobal.com
		 W:www.TIEglobal.com P:www.stuartcampbell.co.uk

-----Original Message-----
From: David RR Webber [mailto:Gnosis_@compuserve.com]
Sent: Friday, February 02, 2001 15:54
To: William J. Kammerer
Cc: ebXML Core
Subject: Re: Tag Languages, UID's etc. - My experiment with the Beacon

Message text written by "William J. Kammerer"
In summary, with everyone and his brother (ISO BSR and the Beacon BDR as
notable examples) having already started such naming facilities, why
does ebXML have to invent its own?  At a minimum, couldn't some XML
artifact ("imaginary" namespaces???) be used to say a particular name is
defined by the BSR, or alternatively, the BDR, the HIPAA DED or the
RosettaNet Business Dictionary?


Am I missing something here?

I know watching ebXML work can be like watching flies around a fresh
cow pat - and we're all sort-of focused on the same goal - but there's
a lot of flying around and buzz that makes it hard to hear yourself
think sometimes!

Anyway - I thought the idea was to specifically NOT come up with some
naming system - since there are a shed load of these out there already,
and by specifying the UID mechanism we can be neutral in what
amount to religious wars on wording schemes.

Therefore we can load an ebXML registry with whatever dictionary
a particular industry fancies, and then use the UID mechanism to
build associations to ensure interoperability.

Trying to force a standard 'set' of things down everyones throats
smacks too much of old EDI, and also like too much work!

The BDR is a good example in this context - it has evolved over time
and there is a result of a particular group of people doing things their
way.  Nothing wrong with that.   I like the idea that ebXML provides the
tools for registry and core components and then this allows people
to set forth and create what they need to.

Over time - best practices - and established components will drive
a natural development in this space.  No need for us to try and
artificially grow mutant strains in some lab' somewhere with
excessive use of inorganic fertilisers!!


p.s.  Kehh?!  And it seemed to be using archaic and effete spellings,
         like "Organisation" - which has long been replaced
        (even in the OED!!!) by the robust and reformed "Organization."
        May I remind you that there are about 230 million Americans,
        of whom only about 60+% actually claim American as their
        first language - and that real English speakers worldwide far
        outnumber you!

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