Re: The initial ebXML business vocabulary - A call for a listofcandidates

[Abid Farooqui <farooqui@tampabay.rr.com>]

I think a lot of the hurdles found in not being able to use one format (a
single business message suitable for every industry) are at least
technically gone with the use of XML and XML schemas.
However as Remy suggested we should also look at OO approach to this problem
as well. At this point there is no harm in trying to solve the problem both
ways and see which works better in reality scenarios. One can only do that
if one has a demo implementation.
That is my 2 cents.
Sincerely,
Abid Farooqui


----- Original Message -----
From: "Rémy Marchand" <rm-edi@worldnet.fr>
To: "Cole, Wavell (GXS)" <Wavell.Cole@gxs.ge.com>; "Abid Farooqui"
<farooqui@tampabay.rr.com>; "David Lyon" <djlyon@one.net.au>; "Mervyn
Colton" <Merv@quest.ie>; <ebxml-dev@lists.ebxml.org>
Cc: "Rachel Foerster" <rachelf@ix.netcom.com>; "Gilles Brandel"
<Brandel.Gilles@srci.fr>
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2001 4:48 AM
Subject: Re: The initial ebXML business vocabulary - A call for a list
ofcandidates


> Folks,
>
> Speaking in my quality of EFNET (European Footwear Network), I confirm
that
> GCI is a good starting point.
>
> The XML Schema for Catalogue data and product description contains a group
> of data which can be tailored to each product type, in particular shoes.
>
> According to me XML has to define Core Components such as Dates,
Addresses,
> Company and product Id etc..
>
> Unlike UNSM, which are supposed to give the framework for any Order,
Invoice
> etc..and which finally produced inconsistent MIGs, XML should adopt an
> Object Oriented approach, which means defining the few information parcels
> which can be found in any business document, then defining the additional
> information parcels used by trading activities consumer oriented, then
> defining additional information parcels which make sense in a particular
> domain (textile, building and construction).
>
> This leads us to the idea of Core Components, and according to me we
should
> have Basic (general purpose) Core Components, Domain specific Core
> Components, Sector specific Core Components.
>
> As an example, I refer you to the www.hr-xml.org, an organisation working
on
> xml for human ressources management. They have defined all the possible
> national expressions of the group of data "Address".
>
> Should we have more of such basic components, the work would become much
> easier.
>
> Hopefully, this will be an output of the EAN-UCC work.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cole, Wavell (GXS)" <Wavell.Cole@gxs.ge.com>
> To: "Abid Farooqui" <farooqui@tampabay.rr.com>; "David Lyon"
> <djlyon@one.net.au>; "Mervyn Colton" <Merv@quest.ie>;
> <ebxml-dev@lists.ebxml.org>
> Sent: Sunday, June 17, 2001 12:59 AM
> Subject: RE: The initial ebXML business vocabulary - A call for a list
> ofcandidates
>
>
> > Folks,
> >
> > The EAN-UCC Global Commerce Initiative (GCI) is providing an excellent
> base
> > from which EAN members all around the world can employ XML messaging.
The
> > GCI project is producing a suite of business messages based on the XML
> > Schema (XSD). The first of the messages is expected to be made
commercial
> in
> > July this year and I believe will become the 'standard' for at least the
> > Retail Industry in Australia.
> >
> > At least one of the major retailers has already commenced in earnest to
> > implement the purchase order and others will follow.
> >
> > Attempting to develop a single business message suitable for every
> Industry
> > participant has never worked in the past and I doubt that it ever will.
> > However, considering the extensibility structure of the XSD schema this
is
> > not a problem. If there is acceptance of a base schema then an exact fit
> for
> > a user is always possible.
> >
> > I have been working with the Retail Industry in Australia on the issue
of
> a
> > single standard since the late 1980's and it is yet to be realised. It
is
> no
> > wonder that there is a growth in service industries acting as
> intermediaries
> > to ensure trading partners send or receive messages capable of
integration
> > or least interfacing with their back-office systems.
> >
> > There is still a wide view that users will somehow cope with technology
> but
> > in fact, they have no interest in doing so. The expectation is one of
> > complete technology transparency. "Give me an order, do'nt tell me what
is
> > looks like!". As long as technology is as simple as the act of making a
> > phone call, to end users that is all they want.
> >
> > Wavell Cole
> >
> > Snr. EC Consultant
> > GE ecXpress
> > Level 15, 565 Bourke St.
> > Melbourne Vic. Australia 3000
> > Office: 61-3-9927 2502, Fax 61-3-9629 8838
> > Mobile: 0409 148 260
> > Dial Comm 345 0002
> > email: wavell.cole@gxs.ge.com
> > WAP email: colew@telstra.com
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Abid Farooqui [mailto:farooqui@tampabay.rr.com]
> > Sent: Sunday, 17 June 2001 3:27
> > To: David Lyon; Mervyn Colton; ebxml-dev@lists.ebxml.org
> > Subject: Re: The initial ebXML business vocabulary - A call for a list
> > of candidates
> >
> >
> > Mervyn,
> > I just wanted to say that David Lyon is completely on target in my
> opinion.
> > A horizontal transaction set covering many industries is exactly what I
> have
> > been asking this list about and it simply does not exist. I have been
> given
> > example scenarios where a PO format for aerospace would be very
difficult
> to
> > be used as a PO format for some other industries. In my opinion that was
> not
> > the case and the problem could be easily solved but I guess I was a
> minority
> > in that opinion at least in this list. Specifics like inspections of
> > aerospace gear that conforms to ASME standards was sighted. Well, I
always
> > thought that ebxml worked under the UN not under the US. In either case
I
> > had suggested that inspections may be a part of any PO (optional) not
just
> > for aerospace industry in the US.
> > In short what I see happening is that while ebxml and related bodies
wait
> to
> > theorize the whole deal in complex lingo and jargain, some of us will
find
> > things already out there and use them over ebxml messaging with the CPP
> etc.
> > Will that make these products ebxml compliant. Yes, because lack of
> > something cannot and should not force us ot to make a product that
solves
> a
> > real need now.
> > Sincerely,
> > Abid Farooqui
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "David Lyon" <djlyon@one.net.au>
> > To: "Mervyn Colton" <Merv@quest.ie>; <ebxml-dev@lists.ebxml.org>
> > Sent: Saturday, June 16, 2001 4:30 AM
> > Subject: The initial ebXML business vocabulary - A call for a list of
> > candidates
> >
> >
> > > Mervyn,
> > >
> > > It's a funny thing about ebXML but I'm told that there are
> > > actually *no* defined messages yet, in the traditional sense.
> > >
> > > Not at this point anyway.
> > >
> > > However, practical neccessity will no doubt overide the
> > > technical theorists and purists. This has to happen for ebXML
> > > to ever work.
> > >
> > > Where ebXML appears to be at the moment is that
> > > there is a reluctance to make an executive commitment to
> > > documenting some standard messages. This may be
> > > due to lack of funds, or maybe a perceived difficulty
> > > that a horizontal transaction set covering many industries
> > > will be extremely difficult to do.
> > >
> > > No matter, grass-roots support, from participants all
> > > around the world, especially in developing countries, is
> > > leading to the invevitable conclusion that a third-party
> > > business/messaging vocabulary must be picked up for
> > > ebXML to ever work.
> > >
> > > The best way forward, rather than to build a new
> > > vocabulary from scratch is to pick up and run with an
> > > existing one. Then, over time, adapt that to suit
> > > requirements.
> > >
> > > I've checked out www.xcbl.org and noticed that
> > > above everything, they provide a reasonably workable
> > > XML based transaction set that could be used as
> > > the basis to build an ebXML transaction set.
> > >
> > > If there are any other candidates for an ebXML
> > > then please mail me.
> > >
> > > As ebXML runs under the United Nations banner, it's
> > > a responsibility for people in all nations accross the
> > > world to have their say on how they would like ebXML
> > > to go forward, not only those based in Europe or
> > > America.
> > >
> > > Looking forward
> > >
> > > David Lyon
> > > ebXML Evangelist
> > > Brisbane Australia
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Mervyn Colton <Merv@quest.ie>
> > > To: Ebxml-Dev (E-mail) <ebxml-dev@lists.ebxml.org>
> > > Sent: Friday, June 15, 2001 5:18 PM
> > > Subject: Newby
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hi All,
> > > >
> > > > I'm new to these email goups on ebxml. I would like to know if there
> is
> > an
> > > > URL that explains more on the scope of the different email groups,
and
> I
> > > am
> > > > specifically interested in where the different "messages" are
defined
> > for
> > > > the FMCG business place. Product catalogs for example.
> > > >
> > > > Any tips on where to start looking would be very much appreciated.
> Sorry
> > > if
> > > > this has been covered before.
> > > >
> > > > Mervyn Colton
> > > > Technical Director
> > > > merv@quest.ie
> > > > Quest Computing Ltd
> > > > www.quest.ie
> > > >
> > > >
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