RE: [ebxml-dev] WS vs ebXML poll

[James Bryce Clark <jamie.clark@mmiec.com>]

I found your perspective, and views regarding spin on the story and poll,
helpful info.  Thanks for responding.  Comments below.

At 07:44 AM 6/14/02, colin adam wrote:
> First
> of all, I removed your flame from your posting. Really we can all do
> better with constructive comments. I may have personal thoughts *** but I
> prefer not to share them with the world at large. Just more polite that
> way.

I generally agree.  What flame?  "Low attention
span?"   If you would prefer "I do not think the
wording of this poll was designed with much thought", OK, I'll go
with that, and I apologize for any perception to the contrary.  

> The
> poll was started in response to a discussion around web services and
> ebxml at zdnet, and a URL was given for people to read those comments.

If you mean Mr. Knorr's article I thought it was useful also.

> That
> discussion highlighted for me the issue that some people may see ebxml
> and web services in competition.  I took this up with the idea of a
> poll to see if, yes, I get lots of votes which suggests people do have a
> view on the issue of web services vs ebXML and two, to generate
> discussion ***

I think we're still not connecting conceptually here.  My fault for
not being clear enough.
    (1) You work for the "web services
journal".  That organization's spin on, and definition of, web
services is important enough to merit attention.
    (2) In my understanding of the world, the phrase
"web services" is a superclass of emerging technologies, of
which WS-I, ebXML, .Net, some other OASIS efforts, etc. are all partial
(or allegedly complete) subsets.  It is not even clear yet that the
W3C WSDL effort correctly describes the outer boundaries, although I hope
so, in the latter case.  
    (3) So the phrasing of the poll is semantically
meaningless.  
    (4) I cannot tell whether you and the web services
journal agree or disagree with #2.   
    (5) This is a matter of some strategic importance, as
it illustrates whether efforts to pre-emptively brand web services are
succeeding with the press.  Sort of like all cellophane tape being
called "Scotch Tape."   It would be similar to a poll
asking if people favored "SQL or Oracle", leaving readers to
guess whether you meant the Microsoft product SQL or the query
method.  

> Hence
> the question. Now whether one option is weaker than the other is not
> something I considered when I made the options. They honestly were meant
> to be fair and equally balanced.

I'm sorry, I don't understand the context of "weaker" here and
didn't raise it myself.  Again, my take is that a definition of
"web services" as something that excludes ebXML is inherently a
set-up.   Certainly I have no reason to believe it was
deliberate, and accept your statement of intent.   And given the
spin, as an ebXML co-editor I was rather pleased with the poll
results.  I will follow up on the reasoning behind the artificial
distinction, though.    

> * * *
> I have seen a few articles that suggest web services and ebXML are in
> competition from B2B suppliers. I am in fact working with Dieter Jenz on
> one such article to be published in the next few days which looks at some
> of the issues. I welcome everyone to come and make their opinions know in
> the comments section under that article once it is published.

I will look forward to it, and seek more understanding of the definition
question there.  Again, thanks for your views.

Regards  Jamie Clark

~ James Bryce Clark 
~ VP and General Counsel, McLure-Moynihan Inc.  
www.mmiec.com 
~ Chair, American Bar Assn Business Law Subcommittee on Electronic
Commerce 
~
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~ 1 818 597 9475   jamie.clark@mmiec.com   jbc@lawyer.com 
~ This message is neither legal advice nor a binding signature.  Ask me why.