Duane, I believe the people I worked with on ebXML would agree that IBM played a very significant role during the early phases of ebXML development. I personally worked with Marty Sachs, John Ibbotson, Scott Hinkleman and Bob Sutor and other IBMers throughout the process and found their contributions valuable. No doubt about it; IBM was a significant contributor to ebXML's development effort. However, I have also witnessed IBM's apparent anti-ebXML sentiments in the marketplace recently. Just a few short weeks ago I attended an Energy industry meeting in which IBM claimed that "ebXML has no traction" and this was the reason they gave for proposing a "Web Services" solution. I specifically cited the public endorsement and production deployment of ebXML solutions by the Energy, Travel, Automotive and other industries across the globe and asked an IBM rep for a similar demonstration of traction for "web services". The list they provided was limited to one healthcare initiative which I had not previously heard of (FYI it was not HIPAA for those that may be wondering). When pressed for a definition of "Web Services" the IBM representative referred to SOAP, WSDL and UDDI. I informed the IBM rep that ebXML's MS is based on SOAP. He said he was not aware of this (he was quite confused by this revelation to say the least). This fact was confirmed when an attendee from the energy industry presented the IBM rep with one of the models from ebXML's MS spec which clearly shows the use of SOAP. For whatever reason, IBM decided not to produce an ebXML product. This fact was disclosed by IBM during the meeting. I have no doubt that IBM's commitment to produce, market and promote Web Services solutions (e.g. WS-Security, WS-Routing, et al), some of which compete directly with ebXML, make it difficult for IBM to publicly endorse and promote ebXML. In short, I believe IBM has decided to follow in Microsoft's footsteps with regard to ebXML. Also, with regard to item 4; "4. IBM have donated their TPA IP (royalty free) to ebXML." I do not believe that IBM has donated their TPA IP royalty free to ebXML. You may recall the uproar caused when IBM claimed IPR and referred to a patent regarding technologies used in the CPP/CPA. That resulted in the following submission by IBM to OASIS: http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/ebxml-cppa/documents/ibm_ipr_statemen t. shtml Which states: "IBM will, upon written request, provide a nonexclusive, royalty free patent license, with other reasonable terms and conditions for ALL patents issued to IBM which contain essential claims and for which IBM is able to provide patent licenses (including the issued patent and unpublished patent application disclosed above), for the OASIS ebXML Collaboration Protocol Profiles (CPP's) and Collaboration Protocol Agreements (CPA's) Versions 1 and 2 specifications. This patent license is available to all entities willing to grant IBM a reciprocal license." In other words, IBM did not donate their IPR to ebXML or OASIS. According to the document cited above "individual companies" can request a royalty free license from IBM, in exchange for a reciprocal license (whatever that means). Dick Brooks Systrends, Inc 7855 South River Parkway, Suite 111 Tempe, Arizona 85284 Web: www.systrends.com <http://www.systrends.com> Phone:480.756.6777,Mobile:602-684-1484,eFax:240-352-0714 -----Original Message----- From: Duane Nickull [mailto:duane@xmlglobal.com] Sent: Friday, January 03, 2003 11:13 AM To: Fraser Goffin Cc: ebxml-dev@lists.ebxml.org Subject: Re: [ebxml-dev] Microsoft Refuses to support ebXML Fraser Goffin wrote: > IBM have been singularly > 'luke-warm' about support for ebXML as well. > > Have you had any dealing with IBM that would suggest otherwise ? >>>>>>>>>> I would point out that: 1. IBM has donated several people to work on ebXML. Marty Sachs has been involved with CPP/A since day one. 2. John Ibbotson (IBM) has presented on ebXML and his PPT is available at the oasis site: http://www.ebxml.org/presentations.htm 3. Alexei Chirokikh, IBM works within the ebXML marketing group: http://lists.ebxml.org/archives/ebxml-mktg-sc/200209/msg00011.html 4. IBM have donated their TPA IP (royalty free) to ebXML. I am sure this list would go on a lot longer if someone searched for "ebxml + IBM" on google. Maybe they haven't lived up to the expectations of some ebXML participants but remember that it is difficult for any large company to get a unified policy towards any new standard. Duane Nickull -- VP Strategic Relations, Technologies Evangelist XML Global Technologies **************************** ebXML software downloads - http://www.xmlglobal.com/prod/ ---------------------------------------------------------------- The ebxml-dev list is sponsored by OASIS. 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