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RE: [ebxml-dev] Microsoft Refuses to support ebXML


I believe the people I worked with on ebXML would agree that IBM played a
very significant role during the early phases of ebXML development. I
personally worked with Marty Sachs, John Ibbotson, Scott Hinkleman and Bob
Sutor and other IBMers throughout the process and found their
valuable. No doubt about it; IBM was a significant contributor to ebXML's
development effort.

However, I have also witnessed IBM's apparent anti-ebXML sentiments in the
marketplace recently. Just a few short weeks ago I attended an Energy
industry meeting in which IBM claimed that "ebXML has no traction" and
was the reason they gave for proposing a "Web Services" solution.
I specifically cited the public endorsement and production deployment of
ebXML solutions by the Energy, Travel, Automotive and other industries
across the globe and asked an IBM rep for a similar demonstration of
traction for "web services". The list they provided was limited to one
healthcare initiative which I had not previously heard of (FYI it was not
HIPAA for those that may be wondering).

When pressed for a definition of "Web Services" the IBM representative
referred to SOAP, WSDL and UDDI.
I informed the IBM rep that ebXML's MS is based on SOAP. He said he was
aware of this (he was quite confused by this revelation to say the least).
This fact was confirmed when an attendee from the energy industry
the IBM rep with one of the models from ebXML's MS spec which clearly
the use of SOAP.

For whatever reason, IBM decided not to produce an ebXML product. This
was disclosed by IBM during the meeting.

I have no doubt that IBM's commitment to produce, market and promote Web
Services solutions (e.g. WS-Security, WS-Routing, et al), some of which
compete directly with ebXML, make it difficult for IBM to publicly endorse
and promote ebXML. In short, I believe IBM has decided to follow in
Microsoft's footsteps with regard to ebXML.

Also, with regard to item 4;
"4. IBM have donated their TPA IP (royalty free) to ebXML."

I do not believe that IBM has donated their TPA IP royalty free to ebXML.
You may recall the uproar caused when IBM claimed IPR and referred to a
patent regarding technologies used in the CPP/CPA. That resulted in the
following submission by IBM to OASIS:

Which states:

"IBM will, upon written request, provide a nonexclusive, royalty free
license, with other reasonable terms and conditions for ALL patents issued
to IBM which contain essential claims and for which IBM is able to provide
patent licenses (including the issued patent and unpublished patent
application disclosed above), for the OASIS ebXML Collaboration Protocol
Profiles (CPP's) and Collaboration Protocol Agreements (CPA's) Versions 1
and 2 specifications. This patent license is available to all entities
willing to grant IBM a reciprocal license."

In other words, IBM did not donate their IPR to ebXML or OASIS. According
the document cited above "individual companies" can request a royalty free
license from IBM, in exchange for a reciprocal license (whatever that

Dick Brooks
Systrends, Inc
7855 South River Parkway, Suite 111
Tempe, Arizona 85284
Web: www.systrends.com <http://www.systrends.com>

-----Original Message-----
From: Duane Nickull [mailto:duane@xmlglobal.com]
Sent: Friday, January 03, 2003 11:13 AM
To: Fraser Goffin
Cc: ebxml-dev@lists.ebxml.org
Subject: Re: [ebxml-dev] Microsoft Refuses to support ebXML

Fraser Goffin wrote:
> IBM have been singularly
> 'luke-warm' about support for ebXML as well.
> Have you had any dealing with IBM that would suggest otherwise ?

I would point out that:

1. IBM has donated several people to work on ebXML.  Marty Sachs has
been involved with CPP/A since day one.

2. John Ibbotson (IBM) has presented on ebXML and his PPT is available
at the oasis site:

3. Alexei Chirokikh, IBM works within the ebXML marketing group:

4. IBM have donated their TPA IP (royalty free) to ebXML.

I am sure this list would go on a lot longer if someone searched for
"ebxml + IBM" on google.

Maybe they haven't lived up to the expectations of some ebXML
participants but remember that it is difficult for any large company to
get a unified policy towards any new standard.

Duane Nickull
VP Strategic Relations,
Technologies Evangelist
XML Global Technologies
ebXML software downloads - http://www.xmlglobal.com/prod/

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