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Subject: RE: [ebxml-mktg-sc] Gartner et al

I still think it makes little sense to try to "sell" them or "educate" them
on ebXML. These guys (at least Wes Rishel) very well know what it is and
what problems it is trying to solve. At one time, Wes Rishel was a big
advocate of using ebXML in healthcare. Apparently he has changed his take.
But as recently as this past June, I sat in a room with him and he was still
promoting it as "the only thing out there", although he was concerned about
the window of opportunity. 

The reason that some of the other Gartner guys are negative on ebXML is that
those particular guys come from an EAI background. "Web Services" is
attractive to these guys because Web Services is a new way to do EAI (as
well as B2B). You won't see organizations doing ebXML for EAI. But Web
Services is an easy technology for a developer to personally play around
with and use for internal EAI projects. All the IDEs are supporting Web

Gartner may be wanting to define their own architecture, but I don't see it
that way. ebXML is not inconsistent with their "enterprise nervous system"
concept. It actually fits in very nicely.

Gartner is driven by trends and they try to create trends. If they are
negative on ebXML it not because of technology. It's because their customers
are not calling them asking about ebXML. Their customers, however, *are*
calling them about "Web Services".

I still believe the only powerpoint that would make any impact whatsoever on
them would be one that summarizes the current state of adoption, entitled
something like: "ebXML Adoption -- A Worldwide Update". 

Just my 2c.


-----Original Message-----
From: David RR Webber - XMLGlobal [mailto:Gnosis_@compuserve.com] 
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 10:37 AM
To: ebXML Mkt Steering
Subject: [ebxml-mktg-sc] Gartner et al


I was talking today with someone who uses the Gartner services.

They are not the typical client - as they probably know alot
more than most analysts!

Consequently they ask much tougher questions.

Anyway the bottom line is that the realization is that 
Gartner is not looking to promote an open architecture
like ebXML, but rather their own architecture, and
consulting services driven off that to their clients!

This of course raises a different set of issues to 
what we had originally foreseen in engaging with Gartner.

The other realization is that Gartner does not understand
what the ebXML stack delivers.  And aligned with this is
the fact that they have vendor clients who want to sell
technology as solutions.

In the big picture of making better integration and 
interoperability thru improved methodology and 
paradigm - we see that this message is only 
sporadically penetrating.   

A classic example is W3C XSD Schema - here 
is technology being positioned as the integration 
solution.  It is not.  It was never designed for 
this role, and it has serious and numerous 
shortcomings.  Its OK for what it is designed 
for - describing the possible
permutations that can occur for given XML structure.

The ebXML assembly approach solves the pieces
of the puzzle that XSD cannot deliver, and provides
the means to expand above and beyond where XSD
leaves off.  Yes - we do have materials that document
this - and we need to get those out there.

How many Gartner analysts understand that today?
Or any other analysts for that matter!?

This situation I would now elevate to RED CRITICAL

I believe we need to urgently move on our work to
reach out to analysts.  

Can we have this as a focus for next two weeks?

Action items.

1) PPT materials that show the rationale and approach
     behind the ebXML architecture.

2) Draw up list of analysts we can reach thru our
     combined contracts and contacts.

3) Draw up schedule and "roadshow" to present
     to them over next month.

4) Build our team and team calendar of who is

5) Look at upcoming conference schedule so we
     can combine this with analyst sessions at shows.

Any other thoughts here on ways to approach this
and get this job done?

On the bright side - Gartner was quoted in the
sessions as saying that "ebXML appears to be
gathering momentum", but did not say more than
that - such as what ebXML delivers etc.

Thanks, DW.

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