Re: [ebxml-dev] New WSCI spec competes with BPSS....

[Todd Boyle <tboyle@rosehill.net>]

<more noise>
Why aren't they down here in ebXML working with us on the standards??

 > Think of wsci as an ebxml killer and the public interface to any process,
 > making it reusable and exposing it where needed since that process is a
 > private implementation (BPML)

We've been thru this before
http://lists.ebxml.org/archives/ebxml-stc/200008/msg00046.html
http://lists.ebxml.org/archives/ebxml-bp/200102/msg00030.html
http://www.gldialtone.com/M$hijinks2.htm

First of all they're only competing with ebXML BP not the whole ebXML.
It seems to be their marketing ploy, playing on the name recognition
of ebXML, I guess.

It might not be entirely bad thing if every layer of ebXML has
competitive solutions, as long as they interop. with other layers.
Maybe they will end up using RM, RR, CPP.   They will certainly
end up mapping to the same semantic entities as Core Components.
I pity them, trying to build just a BP layer, without anything else.

ebXML has some of the best scientists in the world, they have
already been through BPML and punctured some logical
holes in it.  And probably learned some useful things from it.

It is natural, that people are going to produce applications that
do many good, useful things.  Years are going by.

I guess, I don't have a big problem with BPMI until somebody
shows me why their standard is worse.  They are a bunch of
people and companies--and so is the ebXML.  Both needs to
sit down and negotiate a settlement.

Guys like me will remember, and criticize, developers
and companies a long time in the future, whose stuff doesn't
interoperate.  Especially when the incompatible applications are
broken by standards, forcing the customers into upgrades.
I enjoy this, actually.

It is impossible to stop the ignorant, avaricious VCs and CEOs.
The problem is the CTOs and developers who are selling false
promises to the VCs just so they can have a job building crappy
applications for a year or two,

Todd

At 08:18 AM 6/13/02, Andrzej Jan Taramina wrote:
>The new Web Service Choreography Interface spec has been developed and
>released by a consortium including Sun, BEA, Intalio, and SAP.
>
>The spec can be found here:
>
>         http://titan.intalio.com:8080/intalio/wsci/
>
>According to a contact at Intalio (prime movers behind BPMI), and I quote:
>
> > Think of wsci as an ebxml killer and the public interface to any process,
> > making it reusable and exposing it where needed since that process is a
> > private implementation (BPML)
>
>Basically, it looks like WSCI is intended to supplant BPSS.  This is a bit 
>strange,
>given Sun's participation and support of ebXML initiatives.  WSCI would be 
>used to
>specify public processes, whereas BPML would be used to specify private 
>(internal)
>processes.
>
>It distresses me that the whole world of XML-dialect standards seems to be
>splintering as soon as you try to get anywhere beyond the basic specs 
>(XML, SOAP,
>WSDL, UDDI) that the vendors have all agreed to.  Seems that vendors are 
>still
>playing their usual games vying for proprietary lock-in higher up in the 
>protocol
>stacks.
>
>It behooves the users/customers to loudly complain and demand 
>standards-based,
>interoperable solutions.  We've had a taste of the benefits that such an 
>approach
>brings to the table....let's keep pounding the vendors till they deliver 
>on such
>promises higher in the stack as well.  This also leads me to believe that 
>there might
>be market share gain opportunities available to software vendors that take 
>the high
>road of global standards compliance (New Era/Sybase come to mind here).
>
>I'ld be interested in hearing from Sun people that hang on this list as to 
>what their
>intent is regarding ebXML standards (like BPSS) versus this new WSCI 
>proposal.
>
>
>...Andrzej
>
>Chaeron Corporation
>http://www.chaeron.com
>
>
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